3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[yerlizard]

John, I have no idea where to get that plug. I found the picture of it on this thread or another. From the way it is wired, i'm guessing my heavy duty extention cord isn't up to snuff, and that was causing the generator to kick out. Let me know how your test goes when you get back! have fun. I'm gonna mess around with it this weekend.

CCTAU, it looks like that adapter is a 3 lug, the power pro has 4 lug twist lock.
I was looking for one of those as well.

[fredbert]

When you shut off the generator, was it still powering the AC? That will blow the voltage regulator sooner rather than later! Generators should always be started and stopped with no load.

As a test, start your Champion and slowly load it up with about a 3500 watt resistive load. Heaters and hair dryers work great for this. If the generator still chugs and coughs, it is not performing to spec and there is clearly something wrong with it. Hope this helps! 🙂

[freeatlast]

P.J wrote:

freeatlast wrote:
I bought the Champion "RV" generator after reading all of the positive comments in this thread and am very disappointed to find that it will not run my AC very smoothly. The gen chugs and coughs and the AC unit make way too much noise. When I shut of the gen, it blows the voltage regulator!!! I have replaced the regulator twice.

Any suggestions anyone?

13.5 or 15K air conditioner? What else is if anything is running at that point. Mine runs smooth as butter with the A/C on, I can even run the microwave at the same time.

it's a 13.5. The only thing I can think of is that I was running it on an extension cord. It is a heavy duty RV extension cord though.

[CCTAU]

jpkiljan wrote:
Hello again Scott (yerlizard),

That double-socketed adapter looks just like what I'd like to buy for my Power Pro 3500 "D" model. Can you tell me where they sell those or at least who the manufacturer is? I always figured that they'd be illegal to sell because of the shock hazard and that I'd have to make one on my own.

BTW another thing I noticed about our generator is that each of the 15-amp sockets have an extra slot in the neutral return that makes it look like the letter "T" turned sideways. If I understand correctly (and I'm no expert), that means they are NEMA 5-20R sockets and are more robust than standard 15-amp sockets and designed to take a 20-amp load without overheating--a good thing.

I've got my new generator up and running with its wheel set, but I won't be able to run some heavy test loads on it till I get back from the mountains the middle of next week when I'll be able to try a circular saw and a small air conditioner on the new generator.

Regarding a small 2-stroke generator: The Power Pro is loud compared to my Yamaha EF1000 (four-stroke) suitcase generator, but that generator will not run my 1/2 HP well pump at my mountain cabin. Even though it is rated for the pump's current draw, the voltage drops just below 100 VAC when its running and the motor overheats. I'm at 6400 feet above sea level and that might have something to do with the reduced voltage/output. As I understand it, if you run a pump motor at reduced voltage, the windings start to overheat and that will open a safety breaker like the kind you have in your dryer at home when you forget to clean out the lint filter. A power saw, grinder, drill etc may not have that kind of built-in protection, so be careful when running power equipment on a minimal generator.

Still, the Yamaha is my preferred generator for camping since it is so quite, fuel efficient and because I don't use an air conditioner. If I am camping near a creek, other campers will sometimes tell me they didn't know I had it running since it is so quiet. I chain it to a tree at night so that it is still there in the morning. 8^)

--John (in Colorado)

I see one HERE.

But I don't want to blow my genset up as soon as I plug this in. From what I can gather from the posts above, it should be OK. Since the PP3500 send 12.5 amps to each plug, will this mean we get the full 25 amps through this adapter?

Also. Since we have a selector switch, couldn't we just use one of these instead and get the full amperage?RV PLUG

[jpkiljan]

Hello again Scott (yerlizard),

That double-socketed adapter looks just like what I'd like to buy for my Power Pro 3500 "D" model. Can you tell me where they sell those or at least who the manufacturer is? I always figured that they'd be illegal to sell because of the shock hazard and that I'd have to make one on my own.

BTW another thing I noticed about our generator is that each of the 15-amp sockets have an extra slot in the neutral return that makes it look like the letter "T" turned sideways. If I understand correctly (and I'm no expert), that means they are NEMA 5-20R sockets and are more robust than standard 15-amp sockets and designed to take a 20-amp load without overheating--a good thing.

I've got my new generator up and running with its wheel set, but I won't be able to run some heavy test loads on it till I get back from the mountains the middle of next week when I'll be able to try a circular saw and a small air conditioner on the new generator.

Regarding a small 2-stroke generator: The Power Pro is loud compared to my Yamaha EF1000 (four-stroke) suitcase generator, but that generator will not run my 1/2 HP well pump at my mountain cabin. Even though it is rated for the pump's current draw, the voltage drops just below 100 VAC when its running and the motor overheats. I'm at 6400 feet above sea level and that might have something to do with the reduced voltage/output. As I understand it, if you run a pump motor at reduced voltage, the windings start to overheat and that will open a safety breaker like the kind you have in your dryer at home when you forget to clean out the lint filter. A power saw, grinder, drill etc may not have that kind of built-in protection, so be careful when running power equipment on a minimal generator.

Still, the Yamaha is my preferred generator for camping since it is so quite, fuel efficient and because I don't use an air conditioner. If I am camping near a creek, other campers will sometimes tell me they didn't know I had it running since it is so quiet. I chain it to a tree at night so that it is still there in the morning. 8^)

--John (in Colorado)

[P_J1]

freeatlast wrote:
I bought the Champion "RV" generator after reading all of the positive comments in this thread and am very disappointed to find that it will not run my AC very smoothly. The gen chugs and coughs and the AC unit make way too much noise. When I shut of the gen, it blows the voltage regulator!!! I have replaced the regulator twice.

Any suggestions anyone?

13.5 or 15K air conditioner? What else is if anything is running at that point. Mine runs smooth as butter with the A/C on, I can even run the microwave at the same time.

[freeatlast]

I bought the Champion "RV" generator after reading all of the positive comments in this thread and am very disappointed to find that it will not run my AC very smoothly. The gen chugs and coughs and the AC unit make way too much noise. When I shut of the gen, it blows the voltage regulator!!! I have replaced the regulator twice.

Any suggestions anyone?

[yerlizard]

here is a picture of the wiring on the newer Power Pro 3500

The tab between the outlets is in place and on the red and blue wires going to it. What does this tell you?
does this help any?



Edited to reduce picture width - Mel

[MrWizard]

CCTAU wrote:

eightballsidepocket wrote:

CCTAU wrote:

yerlizard wrote:
John, actually I haven't popped a breaker yet, the generator cuts out than comes back on in about 10 seconds. this is after loading up over 15 amps, on a single outlet, I can take the grinder that put me over the limit and plug it in to the other outlet and it runs fine so you get 13.5 amps on each outlet.
I was kind of hoping to get full amperage out of one outlet for running a power saw. 18amp start up. I really like this generator, I was thinking of getting one of those 1.2kw 2 cycle jobs to keep in my work truck. Wildfire is the brand.

Is this the right type of adapter for an rv?

Please don't PM for an answer. Several of us out here have the same model and would like to know if we can combine the duplex plugs into one 30 amp plug. Mr. Wizard? Professor?

As a construction electrician, I would only have this input to your inquirey. Are the two duplex receptacles out of phase, or similar to the to a house electrical panel where you get your 220v from taping each side or phase of the 120/220v panel.

The breakers that are usually stacked one on another in house panel are each 120 volts to ground, but if you a tester on two adjacent breakers or their respective Buss bars that they are connected too, you should get 220 volts, as the bus bars alternately come from each side or 120 volt phase of your input or feed fromt he utility.

So turn on your genny, and put your tester leads in the hot slot of each duplex receptacle and if you get 220 volts you've got two receptacles from different taps of the gennie's windings.

The only thing if you looking for a 30 amp set-up. 220 volts is not the way to get it. The 30 amp receptacles are actually just 120 volts to ground, and a 220 volt set up will not give you that.

If the two duplex receptacles on your genny are separately breakered, then you could possibly do an additive system off of each duplex and draw more than 20 or 15 amps whichever way they duplexes are breakered. If they are both breakered off the same breaker, then your internal wiring is not designed to carry more than the 20-15 amp breakered current at 120 volts.

In order to get 30 amps or 220 volts some of these gennys may need to have their internal taps, splices redone. I'd be careful doing that unless you know your electric motor/generator wire tap configurations, and have a good quality tester to make sure.

My question to Mr Wizzard or the Professor was referring back to a specific model discussed in this post: PowerPro 3500

according to that drawing, that will work, that is the correct adapter for duplex us to 30 amp rv plug.

run the genset in 120 mode, use a voltmeter check each duplex blade slot to every other blade slot as long as nothing measures over 120 volts you are good to go

[MrWizard]

Ok, it was inverted. You can call it what you want, no need to burst a blood vessel.

I'm sorry, my electronics background makes me want to relate the waveforms to each other by phase. If you look at the two outputs on an o'scope, they appear to be 180 degrees out of phase. This is how a push-pull amplifier works, one side is inverted so the signal appears to be 180 degrees out of phase.

Cheers,

Bob R.

if you use one lead on a center tap and flip the other back and forth between the ends it will look inverted, it is not, if you keep your test leads parallel sequnce and read the left end , ct, OR ct ,right rt end the wave will be the same

if you read left lead end rt end the amplitude will double you will not see 2 waves

[BORoarke]

Anyone have a picture of where you put the RTV silicone on the white fan to reduce some of the noise from that end? Or can explain the process?

Bryan

[racefan1965]

Well it appears that the champion generator is gaining even more popularity and is being accepted and approved by more and more Rver's. I just went to Redding RV to purchase a couple of rugs that wrap around the steps, a ac filter and a reefer light bulb. I start to browse and what do I see sitting there on the show room floor? A brand spanking new electric start RV ready champion generator with the wheel kit. The new one with the wrap around panels like what the professor and mrwizard are trialing. Around $600.00+tx is the price I believe. I asked the clerks about it and after finding out I already owned one, they smiled and stated they were good sellers and gaining popularity. The yellow box is gaining momentum.lol

Rick

[toprudder]

MrWizard wrote:

The reason I know this? I had to use this generator as emergency power after hurricane Fran in 1996. I could not find a 240v plug anywhere in Raleigh, every place was sold out. So, I discovered the two 120v outlets were 180 degrees out of phase, and made an adapter that used two 120v plugs going to a 240v socket. I was able to run my water pump!!

240 volts yes , OUT of PHASE ....NO NO. NO

the 240 volt home line power is , SINGLE phase 60 cycle, the transformer is center tapped to provide 120v single phase.

on the generator, when in 240 mode the windings are series and represent a CT transformer, when in 120 ONLY MODE, the windings are parallel

on a generator that has no switch, and has 240 & 120, it is just like your home service.. it is still single phase the (2) legs are NOT out of Phase.

I could take 10 door bell transformers, parallel all the inputs into just 2 wires, now take all the outputs and string them in series, one after the other like batteries, door bell xf are 28 v, but i would have 120 in and 280 volts out, if tapped the center connection between #5 & #6 outputs, i would get 140 volts to either end, 280 end to end,

nothing is OUT of PHASE, you tapp the winding at a specific point to get the voltage you want

there are only TWO types of service in the USA (except under highly unsual condtitions ) single phase resedential 240/120 and 3phase industrial

industrial high voltage 3 phase is reduced to 460 3phase at the xtransfomer at the building

there is no 2phase, no 180 degree out 240/120

stop saying that

Ok, it was inverted. 🙂 You can call it what you want, no need to burst a blood vessel.

I'm sorry, my electronics background makes me want to relate the waveforms to each other by phase. If you look at the two outputs on an o'scope, they appear to be 180 degrees out of phase. This is how a push-pull amplifier works, one side is inverted so the signal appears to be 180 degrees out of phase.

Cheers,

Bob R.

*** On edit *** I should have said "This is how a bridged output amplifier works....

[CCTAU]

eightballsidepocket wrote:

CCTAU wrote:

yerlizard wrote:
John, actually I haven't popped a breaker yet, the generator cuts out than comes back on in about 10 seconds. this is after loading up over 15 amps, on a single outlet, I can take the grinder that put me over the limit and plug it in to the other outlet and it runs fine so you get 13.5 amps on each outlet.
I was kind of hoping to get full amperage out of one outlet for running a power saw. 18amp start up. I really like this generator, I was thinking of getting one of those 1.2kw 2 cycle jobs to keep in my work truck. Wildfire is the brand.

Is this the right type of adapter for an rv?

Please don't PM for an answer. Several of us out here have the same model and would like to know if we can combine the duplex plugs into one 30 amp plug. Mr. Wizard? Professor?

As a construction electrician, I would only have this input to your inquirey. Are the two duplex receptacles out of phase, or similar to the to a house electrical panel where you get your 220v from taping each side or phase of the 120/220v panel.

The breakers that are usually stacked one on another in house panel are each 120 volts to ground, but if you a tester on two adjacent breakers or their respective Buss bars that they are connected too, you should get 220 volts, as the bus bars alternately come from each side or 120 volt phase of your input or feed fromt he utility.

So turn on your genny, and put your tester leads in the hot slot of each duplex receptacle and if you get 220 volts you've got two receptacles from different taps of the gennie's windings.

The only thing if you looking for a 30 amp set-up. 220 volts is not the way to get it. The 30 amp receptacles are actually just 120 volts to ground, and a 220 volt set up will not give you that.

If the two duplex receptacles on your genny are separately breakered, then you could possibly do an additive system off of each duplex and draw more than 20 or 15 amps whichever way they duplexes are breakered. If they are both breakered off the same breaker, then your internal wiring is not designed to carry more than the 20-15 amp breakered current at 120 volts.

In order to get 30 amps or 220 volts some of these gennys may need to have their internal taps, splices redone. I'd be careful doing that unless you know your electric motor/generator wire tap configurations, and have a good quality tester to make sure.

My question to Mr Wizzard or the Professor was referring back to a specific model discussed in this post: PowerPro 3500

[MrWizard]

The reason I know this? I had to use this generator as emergency power after hurricane Fran in 1996. I could not find a 240v plug anywhere in Raleigh, every place was sold out. So, I discovered the two 120v outlets were 180 degrees out of phase, and made an adapter that used two 120v plugs going to a 240v socket. I was able to run my water pump!!

240 volts yes , OUT of PHASE ....NO NO. NO

the 240 volt home line power is , SINGLE phase 60 cycle, the transformer is center tapped to provide 120v single phase.

on the generator, when in 240 mode the windings are series and represent a CT transformer, when in 120 ONLY MODE, the windings are parallel

on a generator that has no switch, and has 240 & 120, it is just like your home service.. it is still single phase the (2) legs are NOT out of Phase.

I could take 10 door bell transformers, parallel all the inputs into just 2 wires, now take all the outputs and string them in series, one after the other like batteries, door bell xf are 28 v, but i would have 120 in and 280 volts out, if tapped the center connection between #5 & #6 outputs, i would get 140 volts to either end, 280 end to end,

nothing is OUT of PHASE, you tapp the winding at a specific point to get the voltage you want

there are only TWO types of service in the USA (except under highly unsual condtitions ) single phase resedential 240/120 and 3phase industrial

industrial high voltage 3 phase is reduced to 460 3phase at the xtransfomer at the building

there is no 2phase, no 180 degree out 240/120

stop saying that