3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[bobojay5]

A local farm supply store has a 3500 Champion on sale this week for $289.95 plus a 10% off coupon. It would be $260.95 plus tax. Is that a good price?

[vmckague]

I'm not saying I don't trust Chinese generators. If that was the case I wouldn't have bought it. All I wanted to know is about how long I could expect one to last. This is my FIRST genset so I just don't have any idea. Will they last a 100 hrs. or 1000 hrs or what? I have nothing to compare it with. Country of origin has nothing to do with it. Just about how long will a genset last with proper care?

[professor95]

Even after hundreds of postings and success stories, there seems to be a feeling of distrust targeted toward Chinese built generators in the 3000 watt class.

The underlying feeling appears to be, "Will this thing really last or will it blow up after a few hours of operation?" "After all, it is Chinese and everyone knows China builds junk."

For those who don't know, I am a frequent shopper at our local "Harbor Freight" store. Most, if not all, products in this store are made in China. As I look around my workshop I see a Chinese built welder, drill press, band saw, jointer, multimeters, 3 ton floor jack, various bottle jacks, 10 ton hydraulic come-along, metal lathe, Ryobi 18 volt tools, drill bits, spray paint guns, wrenches and sockets, pneumatic nailers, impact wrenches, sanders, and, of course, the generator(s). There is a significant number of other smaller Chinese built tools other than those listed.

None of these Chinese built tools have failed to provide reliable service since the day they were purchased.

Please, don't misunderstand me, some items made in China are not worth a plugged nickel. Electric hand tools like grinders, drills and saws I have purchased proved to be under powered and lack durability. I stick to the name brands like Skill, Makita, Rigid and Craftsman for those items. But, even some of those brands are built in China.

Let's face it. China is the new Japan. They can and do build reliable products, often at a cost much lower than their counterparts in Japan, Canada or the USA.

As a consumer, I love the cost savings Chinese built products provide. The number of tools in my workshop would be significantly less if it were not for Chinese built products.

As an American citizen I have significant concerns about the trade deficit we have with China. I do not like supporting a communist economy. I am extremely sympathetic with the thousands of Americans who have lost their jobs due to foreign competition. I sometimes think, "What would happen to us if all Chinese imports stopped?"

I can tell you what would happen. The cost of goods would soar - we no longer make many of the items China supplies. Shortages would exist and many American businesses that depend on Chinese goods would close.

It would be nice if our country could supply all the goods we use in sufficient quality, quality and at an affordable cost. But, we don't and it is doubtful we will.

Guys, the majority of these little Chinese gensets are going to be running and supplying electricity for many years to come provided the owners take the time to properly care for and service them. Sure, we will have some duds. But, that is not unique to Chinese products. No product is 100% reliable 100% of the time.

There are hundreds of thousands of these 3000 watt class gensets using the Honda GX-200 style engine out there being used everyday. Most parts on the engine can be interchanged with other marques. Even the genheads have a lot of parts in common. Securing parts to repair a non-working Chinese genset should not present a significant problem.

[racefan1965]

I don't know about the rest of these guys but 6/10ths of a quart of oil isn't a lot and maybe cost me about $2.00. It takes me no more than 15 minutes to change out the oil so I do it every 30 hours or so. I never go more than 40 hours without changing it. Better safe than sorry IMO. I don't know if I'm doing it more or less than the others on here I just do what I think works best for my situation.lol

Oh...by the way...I now have 80 hours on my genset and it's working great. It's not my original. I sold my original champion for $250.00 to a guy at a SP who just had to have it and picked up a brand new refurbished champion for $150.00 online. Works just like the original did and I made money.lol

Rick

[vmckague]

How many hours have some of you folks have on your Chinese gensets? I'm just kind of wondering about how long, hour wise, I can expect mine to run with proper maintenance at about half load. Also I just put an hour meter on mine and would like to know about maintenance. My owners manual is a little vague on that subject and any advise would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[blkfe]

It seems I remember reading a thread about a Boily generator throwing a rod or something soon after it's purchase. The "importer" replaced the unit and per my research, these units seem to be working fine and are slowly building a following.
My point is if the unit you purchased broke, so be it. This happens to them all.
If the company you purchased it from won't fix the situation...well then...thats a different color horse.
Brad

[Old___Slow]

RoadTrekker2002 wrote:
Just my 2 cents... having owned one:

Don't get it. Spend the money on a real, authentic engine. My "Chonda" engine lasted 120hrs before throwing a rod. Since it's a piece of junk with no service or parts, I basically wasted $1000 on the disposable genset.

If you use a genset to generate your electricity (dry camp), then you'll want to pony up for a real genset. You can save a lot of headaches and expense that way.

Chonda/RoadTrekker2002

Now that some dust has settled, I do believe the 3000w Chinese Genests Info. will get back on track. When dust settles we can more clearly see the subject at hand. Personally, I empathize with you for the $1000 loss on what proved to be disposable. Our loss(you and me) is close to the same. Your loss was on a Chinese? rod thrower. Mine loss was on one of those's? ( the biggest name RV gensets) trying to have it repaired with only 261 hours on the meter. I had a out of pocket loss for parts of apx. $700 before taking it to a authorized repair service center only to find out a additional $1600 would be required for repair. So all in all I would have had a greater out of pocket loss than your $1000 for what you called a "rod throwing piece of junk" Question. Did you per chance check 'buyer reports' before the purchase. Concerning that subject, I have noticed with interest on RV.NET forums many owners of the same brand of my old OEM disposable Genset, needing advice about needed repair. Anyway you look at it, a loss is a loss. I agree, throwing good money after bad, is a no brainer. Finally you say "spend the money on a real authentic engine" I read reports on this thread and purchased a Champion C46540. MrWizard is nearing 1000hrs with the C'honda and the rod is faithful to gin the gin. One bad apple won't spoil the brew. YOUR's has added some flavor and start em' up ethanol gen power:B..... Pease.

Floyd

[ol_Bombero-JC]

~
RoadTrekker2002 -

Think maybe you're on to something - time to go back to boats!

Aloha!
JC

On edit:
Just a note for the "other folks" - or should I say "regulars".
I thought I was being a nice guy passing along a (polite)
P/M to a "newbie" - about how forums work, etc. - because his first
post to this thread sure smacked of "newbie".

Even a nice comparison about how going off subject is hi-jacking . . and better to simply start a new topic.

Well, foolish me! Little did I know that the Trekker is a forum veteran with an extensive background in forum management, organization, etiquette, and protocol.

Kinda like giving advice -TO- Dear Abbey !!

Oh well.
Can't win 'em all.
~
~

[Dubman]

-

[toprudder]

RoadTrekker2002 wrote:
Just my 2 cents... having owned one:

Don't get it. Spend the money on a real, authentic engine. My "Chonda" engine lasted 120hrs before throwing a rod. Since it's a piece of junk with no service or parts, I basically wasted $1000 on the disposable genset.

If you use a genset to generate your electricity (dry camp), then you'll want to pony up for a real genset. You can save a lot of headaches and expense that way.

This is your original post. Please don't take offense to the initial response. It sure sounded like you were saying ALL Chinese gensets are unreliable, with no customer service or support available. It is understandable that a few people in this thread would take exception to this since they HAVE found that some companies are better than others in both reliability and support after the sale. This thread is about weeding out the good from the bad, and in some cases how to make the inexpensive gensets fit our individual needs (parallel the windings, convert to LP, sound enclosures, etc).

Along the way, there has been a wealth of information about such things as wiring, transfer panels, proper grounding, etc. People like the Professor and Mr Wizard and others have spent a lot of time not only contributing to this discussion, but also investigating different aspects of generators in general and "3000w Chinese gensets" in particular.

Once in a while, someone will pop into the discussion and say "all chinese gensets are junk, only buy Honda", or something to that effect. I am sure your initial message above came across that way to some people here, although in your followup messages I think that was not your intent. We welcome objective discussion involving personal experiences, but blanket statements like "all are junk" understandably will not be received well here.

In my opinion, the fact that the responses were not more heated speaks highly of the group involved in this discussion. I've seen a LOT worse in other threads and on other websites. Of all the discussions I have been involved with on RV.NET, this is the only one that has stayed alive for so long. I think there is a good reason why. The Professor has done well keep this discussion steered in the right direction and on point.

Welcome to the group.

Bob R.

[MrWizard]

road trekker

IF i had jumped into a 2 yr old boat thread about wood hulls, and said no more than 'I bought a a wood hull boat and 6 months in the water it rotten through and sank, i wasted my $XXXXX, you should only buy american alu or fiberglass boats ..

bha humbug... i had to go out and spend $xxxxxx because i waste my other money

and gave NO facts and NO qualifying info..

you would probably have busted my chops, on your boating forum.

does this put everything into perspective for you..

you can stay and learn or you can leave..

but you made your 1st introduction into this thread/forum rather acrimonious ,
if everything has been explain in your 1st post, instead of a RANT. you would have gotten different replies

[MrWizard]

when a generator head is powered up, its the residual magnetic field in the IRON cord ( that the field windings are wrapped around ) that induces the current ( kick starts ) that starts the generation process, in the output windings,

its a little bit more techincal, but basicaly thats it,

if a genny sets so long unused, that the lamented iron cord losses its residual magnetism, there is nothing to get the process started, and power has to be manually jumpered to the field winding ( called flashing ) to power up the field and get the process started

it a rare occurance, but it can happen, simply running your genny a few times a year will prevent this.

the monthly exercise does more for the mechanical , lube & fuel system, that needs it more often, the electrical, could easily survive being used only once or twice a year

[vmckague]

I read somewhere that if you let one of these gens set to long without starting it and adding a load it would go dead. Something about the magnetic field. Does that make sense or did I just read that wrong? I guess you can tell I'm not a electrician but I can change a light bulb with the best of them. Thanks in advance

[racefan1965]

RoadTrekker2002 wrote:
Hmmm...

This forum is a bit more strict that the ones I am used to. My apologies for not posting info about a "3KW gas powered Chinese genset made by Champion".

If you really want people only posting about Champion gensets, you should change the thread title to read 3000 Watt CHAMPION gas powered gensets, shouldn't you? I'm not sure how posting about a 5kw chinese genset is thread hijacking... although I admit I didn't post about a 3kw model, so maybe it was a hijack? 😉

I am an administrator on a leading boating forum (or was until I recently retired from that duty) and we don't have this kind of strict thread patrol. If a thread was about a chinese genset, all relevant input about chinese gensets was acceptable and desired. With a lot of input about different chinese gensets, forum members gain a better understanding of chinese gensets as a whole.

I put my post up here to help the members of the forum see a negative experience with a chinese genset. A costly one too.

Either way... my first foray into this forum shows that it is not really a place for free and open discussion, but a place full of people who seem to argue and put others down. I don't say this only because of the trouble I had on this thread. I say this because of so many other posts I've read where cranky people are arguing with other cranky people.

How come you don't all work *together* on this forum trying to understand the ins and outs of RVing? Seems like too many on here are just here to argue because they are bored with life?

I don't know what it is, but it's pretty negative.

(Floyd excepted - he's an alright guy from his reply post above) 🙂

Anyway... it was nice stopping by, but with the kind of welcome I got on here...

Oh come on now roadtrekker, as a former admin to a forum you would think you had thicker skin than that!lol I too used to own and admin a forum. I started as a mod and worked up to admin and then bought out the site. I've since shut it down. What kind of site it was will remain unstated as I don't want to be judged by past decisions and want to be judged for who I am now instead.
Anyway...none on here are against you in any way. They just didn't understand the relationship with your genset and the ones being talked about except that it is made in China. Your a new poster as well. We've had our share of trolls who just want to bash us on our decisions. There has been a war of words of sorts with those who believe that if it isn't made in Japan and red or blue it's not a considerate genset. I think a few thought you were one of these trolls and spoke out. Nothing more. Now that we all know that your not a troll I think attitudes have changed and some (I know I do) want to hear about your experiences with your genset and any ideas you might have with and about others. This is a open forum and yes the admin has been known to delete for no real reason other than to feed some secret desire but for the most part there are some realy great people on here with great ideas and experiences to tell about. Some of the smartest people I've had the pleasure to interact with are here. The proffesor and MrWizard, JC, Brad, Floyd and several others on here have amazed me with their electrical knowledge and willingness to help. Don't deprive yourself of this just because you weren't made to feel welcome at first.
Just my thoughts,
Rick

[RoadTrekker2002]

Hmmm...

This forum is a bit more strict that the ones I am used to. My apologies for not posting info about a "3KW gas powered Chinese genset made by Champion".

If you really want people only posting about Champion gensets, you should change the thread title to read 3000 Watt CHAMPION gas powered gensets, shouldn't you? I'm not sure how posting about a 5kw chinese genset is thread hijacking... although I admit I didn't post about a 3kw model, so maybe it was a hijack? 😉

I am an administrator on a leading boating forum (or was until I recently retired from that duty) and we don't have this kind of strict thread patrol. If a thread was about a chinese genset, all relevant input about chinese gensets was acceptable and desired. With a lot of input about different chinese gensets, forum members gain a better understanding of chinese gensets as a whole.

I put my post up here to help the members of the forum see a negative experience with a chinese genset. A costly one too.

Either way... my first foray into this forum shows that it is not really a place for free and open discussion, but a place full of people who seem to argue and put others down. I don't say this only because of the trouble I had on this thread. I say this because of so many other posts I've read where cranky people are arguing with other cranky people.

How come you don't all work *together* on this forum trying to understand the ins and outs of RVing? Seems like too many on here are just here to argue because they are bored with life?

I don't know what it is, but it's pretty negative.

(Floyd excepted - he's an alright guy from his reply post above) 🙂

Anyway... it was nice stopping by, but with the kind of welcome I got on here...