3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[kriellian]

Posted: 07/06/08 10:42pm
FYI,
Altitude report...

Just spent the last week in the San Juans and Umcompaghre National Forest. Boondocked the whole time at 9600 and 9800 ft. The Champion started first pull every day and ran flawlessly. Also tested AC at that altitude and it ran no problem. Great generator!!! High elevation was not a problem for my machine.

Matt

"My" page 603 - guess I didn't search under the proper term...If anyone has another opinion I'd like to hear it.

Dennis

[kriellian]

To Everyone -

This has been a most amazing/educational read...almost done (printed most of it for reference; up to 683) but can't recall if anyone has used the 3500 at high elevations - over say 6000 feet (Mesa Verda NP). I would suspect/hope that in September I wouldn't need the A/C too often at that elevation.

I'm 99.9% certain of getting the electric start model, mounting/bolting it on a front hitch rack with a portable enclosure (adapted from the ideas that have been posted in 700+ pages) which I'll carry in the back of the truck when not needed.

Again, I've learned a lot from all that's been posted...now just curious how well to expect the 3500 to operate at high elevations.

Dennis

[Old___Slow]

Prof wrote ~ After an hour of running the generator with the 15K front air conditioner, the ambient temperature inside the compartment, as measured by a remote temperature device, never exceeded 5 degrees F above the incomming air temperature.

The downdraft 14" auto radiator cooling fan did shift into high speed after about 15 minutes, meaning that the exhaust air was over 135 degrees F. This was expected.

snip, ~ Hmmm?

I am a happy camper!

Brad wrote, Great to hear Professor. When I installed the new and larger fan in the bottom of my install I placed the fan on the outside of the compartmet as I was too lazy to remove the genset and do it right.
Now the fan noise louder than the champ!
I will be changing this so I may share in your joy.
Brad

Happy camping always comes from various reasons. Silence helps. When a fan is louder than a Champion, wow, success has been achieved. Great work. Who said Champions are loud?

Don't forget the carpet, Brad! And Prof, where did you buy that blue stuff you used for sound suppression. I like that too!

Floyd

[blkfe]

professor95 wrote:
Nancy and I are at Small Country Campground in Louisa, VA.

An unexpected Bermuda High has brought summer-like temperatures into the area. Today regestered in the lower 90's.

This is the first time I have had the opportunity to test run the Champion in "The Cave" with a full load including an air conditioner.

The downdraft fan seems to be the answer to an effective cooling method for a closed compartment of the type found in the front of many 5th wheel campers - at least in my situation. I wrote about "The Cave" in several back postings.

After an hour of running the generator with the 15K front air conditioner, the ambient temperature inside the compartment, as measured by a remote temperature device, never exceeded 5 degrees F above the incomming air temperature.

The downdraft 14" auto radiator cooling fan did shift into high speed after about 15 minutes, meaning that the exhaust air was over 135 degrees F. This was expected.

The 180 degree high temperature shut down on the back of the engine cylinder never activated.

I am a happy camper!

Great to hear Professor. When I installed the new and larger fan in the bottom of my install I placed the fan on the outside of the compartmet as I was too lazy to remove the genset and do it right.
Now the fan noise louder than the champ!
I will be changing this so I may share in your joy.
Brad

[Emptyspaces]

Professor,
Tried sending an email but looks to have been lost.

I recently bought a 1200/1500w Model ST1500 mfg. by Robot. It's the typical GX clone in a downsized version. It has an oil leak at the governor shaft on top of the block. I've looked at every IPB of this series motor and none show a seal for the shaft, only a plain flat washer.
In your Photobucket pics you have an excellent shot of the governor.

http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/professor95/?action=view&current=governoratspeed.jpg

It appears there might be a seal in the case where the shaft goes through the block. Do you remember if this is a seal or just a washer?

I've check for a plugged crankcase vent and is OK. The leak is significant while running. If this is just a flat washer it probably is to deflect oil thrown from the crank and may be missing. Returning the gen is not an option so I may have to do surgery.

Thanks

[professor95]

Anybody still out there?

This video was recently sent to me. Kinda' cute..... I am interested in seeing the "How To" videos it introduces.

[professor95]

Nancy and I are at Small Country Campground in Louisa, VA.

An unexpected Bermuda High has brought summer-like temperatures into the area. Today regestered in the lower 90's.

This is the first time I have had the opportunity to test run the Champion in "The Cave" with a full load including an air conditioner.

The downdraft fan seems to be the answer to an effective cooling method for a closed compartment of the type found in the front of many 5th wheel campers - at least in my situation. I wrote about "The Cave" in several back postings.

After an hour of running the generator with the 15K front air conditioner, the ambient temperature inside the compartment, as measured by a remote temperature device, never exceeded 5 degrees F above the incomming air temperature.

The downdraft 14" auto radiator cooling fan did shift into high speed after about 15 minutes, meaning that the exhaust air was over 135 degrees F. This was expected.

The 180 degree high temperature shut down on the back of the engine cylinder never activated.

I am a happy camper!

[kyle_morley]

Good list! I showed it to a knowledgeable friend who added:

- at the start and just before the end of the test run check the voltage (easy on the Champion, since there's a meter, but probably a good idea to cross check it with another, more accurate meter if you have one) since any changes in the output voltage can be an indication of developing problem.

- get out your wrenches at the end of the run and check all the nuts and bolts for tightness.

- when you are all done fiddling with it, pull the starter very gently to bring the piston up against compression before storing, since this will shut both valves so moisture cannot get in the combustion chamber, and make the valves less likely to stick.

He also suggested using fogging oil (special sticky oil made just for the purpose) in the cylinder instead of motor oil for prolonged storage or in damp locations, saying that motor oil will drain down eventually while the fogging oil stays put better.

professor95 wrote:
Well,

• Add fresh 10W-30 oil.
• Put in 2 gallons of gasoline (optionally add 4 oz 2-cycle oil to gasoline to assure proper lubrication of upper cylinder and valve guides while breaking in).
• Examine petcock and carburetor for any gas leakage (fix if leaks).
• Start generator and run for 15 minutes or so with no load.
• Plug in a 1,500 watt portable electric heater set on high.
• Run until out of gas (about 4 hours).
• Do NOT refill gas tank.
• Drain oil while warm.
• Add fresh oil.
• Remove spark plug and add 1 oz of oil to cylinder - turn engine over by hand - replace spark plug.
• Store in an area where humidity is low.

[MrWizard]

thats because there is 'auto decompression' valve that is open when starting the engine and closed during actual running,

notice 'static' compression NOT running compression.

the decompression valve is one of the things that makes the engine so easy to pull start.

[tvman44]

Wow, that is a lot lower than I expected, I don't think I have ever checked a engine with that little and it ran properly. :h

[BigWoods]

Ok, Since I have about 60psi after 4-5 pulls, I emailed Champion Tech Support to confirm because of the discrepancy in numbers in the hopes these generators are lower PSI than other engine types.

I got an answer in about 2 hours, which is a very good response time.

Here is what they stated:

"Static compression readings between 30 & 45 lbs are normal. Make sure to adjust valves at every 100 hour intervals to ensure longevity. Here is the direct link to our tech bulletin explaining the process http://championpowerequipment.com/tb/CPETB1020001%20Valve%20Adjustment.pdf "

Off to check the valves....

[tvman44]

I would imagine pretty near 150 psi. JMHO.

[BigWoods]

Wow, this is the longest forum thread I have ever seen. I think this is the same thread that convinced me to buy a Champion 3500/4000 a few years ago.

Forgive me if this is a repeat question, I have tried a few searches and have come up blank. Or, let me know if there is a better thread to pose this question.

I am wondering if anyone has clue what a healthy compression test PSI would look like on this Champion engine?

I have to add oil about roughly +/- every two tanks of gas, else the low oil sensor triggers. So, now I top off on every fill (good practice anyway). As such, I want to benchmark my compression in order to see if I am developing some wear. I am also going to check valves clearances as the Champion website describes.

I operate the unit off the grid on my land in N. MN. where I have a travel trailer in the woods. I do cold season camping so need to keep my generator reliable for the heat/charging battery bank.

Thanks,
-Chris

[professor95]

kyle morley wrote:


Any thoughts on what a good out-of-the-box test regimen would be? How many hours and how much load? Enough to test it thoroughly, but not enough to kill it?

Thoughts?

Well,

• Add fresh 10W-30 oil.
• Put in 2 gallons of gasoline (optionally add 4 oz 2-cycle oil to gasoline to assure proper lubrication of upper cylinder and valve guides while breaking in).
• Examine petcock and carburetor for any gas leakage (fix if leaks).
• Start generator and run for 15 minutes or so with no load.
• Plug in a 1,500 watt portable electric heater set on high.
• Run until out of gas (about 4 hours).
• Do NOT refill gas tank.
• Drain oil while warm.
• Add fresh oil.
• Remove spark plug and add 1 oz of oil to cylinder - turn engine over by hand - replace spark plug.
• Store in an area where humidity is low.

Is this official?

No.

But it is what I would advise the gentleman to do if he asked me the question.

[jimmyfred]

...............The generator ought to have a full tank of gas run thru it just to break it in ! He can't afford 12 dollars of gas , penny wise and pound foolish . , jf