3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[gramps1941]

Go to Mod My RV.com .They have a great article on hard start.

[madbare]

Max49 wrote:
I have so far not had any luck googling for the Hard start, supco, etc.
Madbare, where did you get yours and do they install or is it a DIY project?
I start my Carrier at home on a 15 AMP circuit , so I agree, the Champ should run it.

This is where I got mine: Capacitor

I did it myself and it took longer to remove the shroud than to install it. It is very straight forward.

Steve

[Max49]

I have so far not had any luck googling for the Hard start, supco, etc.
Madbare, where did you get yours and do they install or is it a DIY project?
I start my Carrier at home on a 15 AMP circuit , so I agree, the Champ should run it.

[bill_h]

TomG2 wrote:
I recently purchased a Champion 3500/4000 watt generator and am pleased at its performance. I also discovered how to make it as quiet or quieter than my Honda 2000i. Place the Champion between 350 and 400 feet away from all ears.

You must have gotten one of the noisy ones. Most are reported to be very, very quiet.

[madbare]

Max49 wrote:
Thanks for the advice guys. I also talked to Champion customer support.
I turned the RPM up a little so it runs about 3600- 3650 with a 1500 watt heater load on it. I also turned the voltage up to about 124 volts, no load, from 120 volts. Just to give it another possible advantage I took the spark arrester out.
I told them that I turned every thing else off when I tried to run the AC but then they asked if I had also turned off the converter while starting the AC , which I hadn't but will next time.
I should have asked if they offered a little leaner main jet but I will if this doesn't give it the little extra boost it needs. I'll try it later this week.
I'd still like some info on the 'hard start' assist thing and any info on how and where to install it.

I use the Champion and it starts my 13.5k btu Dometic A/C unit without much issue at all and I am at 9k feet here in CO. I added a Suppco Hard start cap and now the generator doesnt even flinch when it starts. I would start with and see if there is any kind of start cap on the A/C. This genset should do what you are trying to.

Steve

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Max49 wrote:

I'd still like some info on the 'hard start' assist thing and any info on how and where to install it.

Try a search with keywords:

"Hard Start Capacitor"
"Hard start"
Easy Start, easy start capacitor, A/C capacitor, etc.


~

[Max49]

Thanks for the advice guys. I also talked to Champion customer support.
I turned the RPM up a little so it runs about 3600- 3650 with a 1500 watt heater load on it. I also turned the voltage up to about 124 volts, no load, from 120 volts. Just to give it another possible advantage I took the spark arrester out.
I told them that I turned every thing else off when I tried to run the AC but then they asked if I had also turned off the converter while starting the AC , which I hadn't but will next time.
I should have asked if they offered a little leaner main jet but I will if this doesn't give it the little extra boost it needs. I'll try it later this week.
I'd still like some info on the 'hard start' assist thing and any info on how and where to install it.

[jlaustin]

:@

Regards,
John

[TomG2]

I recently purchased a Champion 3500/4000 watt generator and am pleased at its performance. I also discovered how to make it as quiet or quieter than my Honda 2000i. Place the Champion between 350 and 400 feet away from all ears.

[tvman44]

Mine also starts my 15,000 BTU A/C with no problems.

[jimmyfred]

Max49 wrote:
Hi guys, Sorry to change the subject but I think this is my best place to get help or advice for my problem.

I have the Champion 46515 RV ready 3500 W. I bought it specifically to save some hrs on the installed 5500 Onan. It seems like it runs great but it either just can't start the AC or sometimes it will but struggles.
I thought it would run one AC easily. I live in Colorado, and most of my camping trips are in the mountains, so I now realize that I'm losing power at 8 or 9000' elevation.
My questions are;
1- Would raising the RPM a little help? I have a Sendec hour meter/ tachometer on it.

2- Does any one have a link where I can buy a Hard Start assist like a Supco SPP6 or any known model that works well?

3- Possibly the most difficult question, Does any one know how/ or where to hook it up to a Carrier 13500 Air V AC with the remote control control pad?

I really appreciate your help. I really don't even need my little Champion if it can't run my AC

...........Since the Champion is significantly , smaller than the Onan , try switching the Fridge over too propane , and turn OFF most other appliances other than fans ! Mine works just fine with a 15k Btu. air unit !
..........Also , at 9,000 feet the air\fuel ratio is going too become very UNbalanced in favor of the gas so it will be running with Too much gas and NOT enough air , UNless you REJET the Carb ! , jf

[tvman44]

Sounds like you need the hard start kit.

[Max49]

Hi guys, Sorry to change the subject but I think this is my best place to get help or advice for my problem.

I have the Champion 46515 RV ready 3500 W. I bought it specifically to save some hrs on the installed 5500 Onan. It seems like it runs great but it either just can't start the AC or sometimes it will but struggles.
I thought it would run one AC easily. I live in Colorado, and most of my camping trips are in the mountains, so I now realize that I'm losing power at 8 or 9000' elevation.
My questions are;
1- Would raising the RPM a little help? I have a Sendec hour meter/ tachometer on it.

2- Does any one have a link where I can buy a Hard Start assist like a Supco SPP6 or any known model that works well?

3- Possibly the most difficult question, Does any one know how/ or where to hook it up to a Carrier 13500 Air V AC with the remote control control pad?

I really appreciate your help. I really don't even need my little Champion if it can't run my AC

[byates]

professor95 wrote:

byates wrote:

Just curious, are you affiliated with CPE?

No. But, I have become a good friend with the Senior Technical Engineer at CPE and he is kind enough to occasionally share with me what is going on at CPE so that "information" (meaning NOT advertising) may be shared on this thread. According to the info he has passed to me Costco has signed on to sell the new ES/RC unit. Thus, it should continue to be available.
BTW - welcome to the thread!

Thanks, I have been reading comments on this thread for sometime now and have learned a lot about generators, and even more about people.
So....to satisfy the curiosity of many, including me, how many units did Costco sell in this initial offering?

[professor95]

byates wrote:

Just curious, are you affiliated with CPE?

No. But, I have become a good friend with the Senior Technical Engineer at CPE and he is kind enough to occasionally share with me what is going on at CPE so that "information" (meaning NOT advertising) may be shared on this thread. According to the info he has passed to me Costco has signed on to sell the new ES/RC unit. Thus, it should continue to be available. Do not know if it will make it to the floor of the stores or not. CPE is also working with other companies that carry their products to add the new unit to their sales inventory. Hopefully for interested RV generator buyers, this will be successful. I bought one of the new models and personally believe it to be the best featured and designed Chinese genny in the 3,000 watt class to date. I am not in any way affiliated with CPE. My cheer leading for them is no different than my attachment to Cedar Creek, GMC and Volvo trucks and the Redskins.

I have also been told that CPE will begin distribution of their first digital/inverter generator sometime toward the end of August. It is a 2,000 watt model. A 1,000 watt inverter manufactured by Kipor and displaying a Champion label will be distributed in Canada only. I do not as of yet have a list of outlets where either one can be purchased.

Bill, I started this thread 5-1/2 years ago and along the way became intrigued with the entire Chinese manufacturing and exporting methodology. It is truly fascinating. There is obviously a lot more to it that just generators - but it is so complex that studying anything else is mind boggling. All I want to do here is help those that want my help and provide information that I collect regarding what is going on in the industry.

BTW - welcome to the thread!