3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Old___Slow]

toprudder, aka, (Capt. Flying Leaf Blower:)

Good show.

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
WOW - that is the first Champ I have know to come with an oil container. I wonder if that was a Lowe's model spec or what?

I was right. The 400026 comes with oil and a funnel to put it in with.

Owner's manual

Guys, thanks for the comments on the leaf blower. I've had a lot of fun with that. It started out as a joke, and, well.... it just kinda happened.

[zedd]

Way off topic or not, that's way cool...

[MrWizard]

bob that is so cool !

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
If I remember correctly, your Champ came from Lowes, right? WOW - that is the first Champ I have know to come with an oil container. I wonder if that was a Lowe's model spec or what?

Hmmm, don't know. Now that I think of it, it might have been something else. My memory isn't what it used to be. 😞

I look forward to seeing how it performs when you put wings and a rudder on it like the leaf blower. :Z I literally loved than one! You really should post a link to that on You-Tube. :B

Won't be flying this one. 🙂

I know it is WAY off topic, but here is a link to the video:

Flying Leaf Blower

[professor95]

toprudder wrote:

Not a bad unit, much better than the little 2 stroke models. The big lablel on the gas cap warned "shipped without oil" and said it would take 14 oz. It took only about 8oz before it started running all over my bench. Either they did not completely drain it, or the instructions were wrong. Where the Champion came with a container of oil (and a nice funnel) this one came with neither.

If I remember correctly, your Champ came from Lowes, right? WOW - that is the first Champ I have know to come with an oil container. I wonder if that was a Lowe's model spec or what?

I saw the 2K job like you got at TSC in the store too. It was a nice looking unit. I'm not sure, but I believe it has a capacitor as a VR rather than a solid state AVR. It would be interesting to see the waveforms.

I look forward to seeing how it performs when you put wings and a rudder on it like the leaf blower. :Z I literally loved than one! You really should post a link to that on You-Tube. :B

[toprudder]

jlaustin wrote:
FWIW - Just got the sale circular from Tractor Supply ... they've got a 2000w open-frame genset (NOT a Champion) for $149.99 - I think it's a Friday-only sale price. Not quite a "disposable" price, but pretty cheap!:)

Yep, went by there today and said "what the heck". I bought one.

Not a bad unit, much better than the little 2 stroke models. The big lablel on the gas cap warned "shipped without oil" and said it would take 14 oz. It took only about 8oz before it started running all over my bench. Either they did not completely drain it, or the instructions were wrong. Where the Champion came with a container of oil (and a nice funnel) this one came with neither.

Started relatively easy. I have not run the Champion and this one side-by-side yet, but my ears told me that this one wasn't much quieter than the Champion.

I hooked up a 1500w oil-filled radiator as a test load. Low and Medium (I'm guessing 500 and 1000w) were ok, there was no mistaking when the load was applied. No load was about 125v (did not check the output frequency). Under 500w and 1000w load, the voltage dropped to about 122v. Under full 1500w load, however, the engine definitely loaded up and almost sounded like it was going to bog down. Voltage dropped to about 112v. So, I would only rate this guy about 1000w (maybe 1200 but I was not able to load it that much). Surge rated at 1500w. Of course, the advertised rating is 1500w/2000w surge.

Features: 12v battery charge output. The carb appears to have a mixture adjustment for the low end, and a fixed jet for the high end. I did not try "tweaking" anything. The carb bowl also appears to have a drain screw. The exterior appearance is good, nothing that I can see suggests poor quality.

I don't have my camper right now (in for service) so I don't know how it will do with the converter as a load. I'm hoping it will work for that.

I've got other uses for this, so for $150 I figured I could not go wrong. I noticed the regular price is $200.

BTW, I went to Northern Tools today. They had an ETQ 1800w inverter model on sale for $300. I did not have a very high opinion of the ETQ 800w I bought a while back, so I can't recommend this one.

[pritch272]

Here is some interesting reading on power factor correction.

This is the product I seem to recall from several years ago, apparently endorsed by NASA.

[MrWizard]

Bill
you answered my unspoken question,.I was wondering about older washers , water pumps,.and fridge, in a large household,.where these items saw lots of use

too the OP I don't think it would help a marginal generator with a hard starting a/c , much better to spend the.money on a bigger generator or replace the a/c unit

[bill_h]

professor95 wrote:

My vote is Snake oil 🙂

I used one quite a while ago. It used capacitors to adjust the apparent power factor so the old fashioned meter would think the old fashioned fridge was using less power. I timed my meter with a stop watch, and there were decent results. Later, with a newer, more energy-efficient fridge, I could detect almost no difference. I am about to get a new "smart" computerized meter, that will probably make it all moot, anyway. I suspect it will also make by bill higher.

[jlaustin]

FWIW - Just got the sale circular from Tractor Supply ... they've got a 2000w open-frame genset (NOT a Champion) for $149.99 - I think it's a Friday-only sale price. Not quite a "disposable" price, but pretty cheap!:)

Regards,
John

P.S.: I apologize - just realized that genset needs another 1000w to be posted in this forum!:B

[blkfe]

professor95 wrote:

pritch272 wrote:

Ken-55 wrote:
Snake oil?? or would this help get an A/C unit to start if you were right at the edge??

http://www.macroplusintl.com/Products/PowerSaver/power_savers_main.html

Not sure... SNIP

I'm sure the Professor will have some input on this, looking forward to it.

The Intelliworks Energy Saver Unit reduces the amount of power drawn from the utility by storing (in its capacitors) otherwise lost and wasted electricity (watts) caused by the inductive appliances in your home.

Read the above several times. Does it really make any sense?

You can charge a capacitor from a power source and use that stored power to give a kick start to an inductive device. Without the capacitor some of the power used to get the device moving is dissipated as heat, which is not a needed form of energy.

Unless you are constantly stopping and starting large inductive devices that the manufacturer has not properly designed, this device would be redundant and un-needed. IMPO, the inductive devices in a residence and RV are already designed for optimum energy use.

The energy stored in the advertised device's capacitors comes from the utility to start with - which you pay for. The concept of an add-on device such as this actually reducing the power consumed by an inductive device to the point of saving enough money on ones electrical bill to justify the cost of the device(s) is unlikely.

My vote is Snake oil 🙂

I always wanted to "run the numbers" on this one as far as would it be practical to use power factor correction in a residential situation? Common sense tells me it's a waist of time but it is used quite often in manufacturering plants. They, however, use muliphase power and usually have large inductive loads.(electric motors).
The question is what is the common range of power factor numbers for a standard home running single phase 220? .7 - .8 might be worth it.
Hmmmm...Maybe create some type of chart or graph......
Brad

[professor95]

pritch272 wrote:

Ken-55 wrote:
Snake oil?? or would this help get an A/C unit to start if you were right at the edge??

http://www.macroplusintl.com/Products/PowerSaver/power_savers_main.html

Not sure... SNIP

I'm sure the Professor will have some input on this, looking forward to it.

The Intelliworks Energy Saver Unit reduces the amount of power drawn from the utility by storing (in its capacitors) otherwise lost and wasted electricity (watts) caused by the inductive appliances in your home.

Read the above several times. Does it really make any sense?

You can charge a capacitor from a power source and use that stored power to give a kick start to an inductive device. Without the capacitor some of the power used to get the device moving is dissipated as heat, which is not a needed form of energy.

Unless you are constantly stopping and starting large inductive devices that the manufacturer has not properly designed, this device would be redundant and un-needed. IMPO, the inductive devices in a residence and RV are already designed for optimum energy use.

The energy stored in the advertised device's capacitors comes from the utility to start with - which you pay for. The concept of an add-on device such as this actually reducing the power consumed by an inductive device to the point of saving enough money on ones electrical bill to justify the cost of the device(s) is unlikely.

My vote is Snake oil 🙂

[pritch272]

Ken-55 wrote:
Snake oil?? or would this help get an A/C unit to start if you were right at the edge??

http://www.macroplusintl.com/Products/PowerSaver/power_savers_main.html

Not sure... I seem to remember my brother-in-law several years ago (20 or 30) having been involved in selling devices something like this, I also seem to remember a segment on one of the news shows (like 60 minutes, 20/20, etc) about it as well. Don't recall the details, but it supposedly saved money by something along the same lines of power factor optimization, phase shifting, or whatever, not that I have any clue. I'm sure the Professor will have some input on this, looking forward to it.

[Ken-55]

Snake oil?? or would this help get an A/C unit to start if you were right at the edge??

http://www.macroplusintl.com/Products/PowerSaver/power_savers_main.html