3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Cox89XJ]

My Kenowa generator won’t put out any voltage. The last time I found a loose terminal, this time the exciter capacitor looks like it has blown out. Swelled up and leaking stuff out. It is a 24uf and 350 volt. Maybe I need to replace it with one with a metal case instead of plastic? I sure hope that fixes it. When I removed the gen cover I also noticed a little metal dust around the roller bearing. I believe I will replace that too while I have to torn down. Less than 100 hours and my hours of repair keep adding up????

[professor95]

gnolivos wrote:

I looked at the circuit diagram again. In my opinion the AVR only monitors one winding under the 120/240V plug. This would explain why loading the other side with a sump pump would cause the Voltage to drop. (no regulation!). Can you triple check your diagram and confirm what you see?

Well, just trying to help here. I have worked with the AVR's on these things, their principle of operation, voltage regulation and such for over six years now. What I wrote in my first post concerning loading is what happens. A detailed explanation of how regulation works has been posted in the past but finding it in all the stuff that has been posted on this thread is a trick in itself. I don't even remember when or what page I did it. If necessary, I will repeat the explanation.

That said, there is absolutely no way a properly operating generator of your type with a sump pump on one leg and a few 100 watt bulbs on the other should show a 30+ volt differential. Did you try swapping legs as I suggested to see if the problem was the same? If it is the same I would suggest looking at your cord/adapter. If not, you need to return the unit or call the customer service number on the genny and discuss the problems with one of their techs to get some direction as to what they want you to do.

Also, this is driving me CRAZY... So essentially I have a 3500 Watt generator, but I have no way or utilizing the full capacity in my household (for emergencies). I cannot find a TT-30P RV cord with the RV plug on one side, and regular 120V household plugs on the other. That I think would solve my issue.

Again, thousands, perhaps even millions of Chinese open frame synchronous generators of a similar type to your model are operating all over the world with the capability to use the full capacity from the 240 plug. CPE is currently the only company that provides an outlet for direct connection to a 120 volt 30 amp TT plug without an adapter. Their approach is the best for RV usage but not something easily plugged into for someone without an RV. Something is wrong with your genny, adapter/power cord or readings - what you are reporting is not normal. From a distance I would strongly suspect a high resistance contact or connection somewhere in the circuit displaying the lower voltage. Maybe the voltage selector switch for example. One thing for sure, with a 30+ volt differential you should easily find it by looking for either smoke or heat.

I doubt that you will find a TT 30 amp cord that will give you more than one standard household plug. The 30 amp TT to a single standard outlet is a common adapter that any RV store should carry. The problem is getting more than one standard plug on the adapter and going beyond the typical 15 amps down-rating. So, you will have to make the break out box for the 30 amp TT outlet. One simple method is to purchase a 30 amp male pigtail such as this one and then pick up two 20 amp duplex outlets, a 4" square utility box, cord clamp and cover from a home store like Lowe's and wire it up yourself. Takes less than 30 minutes. You may find the same 30 amp pigtail at your RV dealership and be able to save shipping.

[gnolivos]

I conducted those earlier tests using a Kill-A-Watt. The load tested consisted of a sump pump which peaks at ~1500 W upon start. The only other loads tested were smaller 100W lamps etc.

I looked at the circuit diagram again. In my opinion the AVR only monitors one winding under the 120/240V plug. This would explain why loading the other side with a sump pump would cause the Voltage to drop. (no regulation!). Can you triple check your diagram and confirm what you see?

Also, this is driving me CRAZY... So essentially I have a 3500 Watt generator, but I have no way or utilizing the full capacity in my household (for emergencies). I cannot find a TT-30P RV cord with the RV plug on one side, and regular 120V household plugs on the other. That I think would solve my issue.

Any help appreciated, my ultimate goal is to use full capacity of this otherwise great little gen. Please help!

professor95 wrote:


Can you give me a guessestimate as to what the loads were or even a measured figure if you have the ability to measure? Kill-A-Watt meters do an excellent job of giving current and voltage up to loads of 15 amps and fit the North American style duplex outlet. For their low cost they make a good RVer investment. A voltage drop down to 95V is not anything close to normal. You may have other problems that need investigating.

The most useful information would be the amperage and voltage on the leg from MW1 and then the amperage and voltage on MW2 as the generator is running. Then, switch loads to the opposite legs and take the measurements again.

[Ric_Flair]

Being new and ignorant to the RV'ing, I needed some questions answered regarding the right size/brand of generator.

Thanks mainly to this thread and those who contributed (specifically, The Prof), I bought the Champion 4000/3500 at TSC for $299. My next option was going to cost ~$1,800 more.

If it runs, is relaiable and not anoying to you or your neighbors, how can you go wrong for $299?

Ran it all day yesterday in +100 heat with the AC on and nary a hick-up.

I'm happy. Thanks again all.

[professor95]

gnolivos wrote:

Professor... when using the 120/240V outlet, only one leg is regulated. (or so I thought?) My cord had four outlets on the other end... one pair from one leg, the other pair from the other leg. My belief has been that when loading on the unregulated leg caused the voltage to drop considerably from 120 down to 95V etc.

Can you give me a guessestimate as to what the loads were or even a measured figure if you have the ability to measure? Kill-A-Watt meters do an excellent job of giving current and voltage up to loads of 15 amps and fit the North American style duplex outlet. For their low cost they make a good RVer investment. A voltage drop down to 95V is not anything close to normal. You may have other problems that need investigating.

The most useful information would be the amperage and voltage on the leg from MW1 and then the amperage and voltage on MW2 as the generator is running. Then, switch loads to the opposite legs and take the measurements again.

[gnolivos]

professor95 wrote:

I would like to know what "all sorts of issues" you experienced with your generator cord. This could help me considerably to further understand how to answer any remaining questions you may have.

Professor... when using the 120/240V outlet, only one leg is regulated. (or so I thought?) My cord had four outlets on the other end... one pair from one leg, the other pair from the other leg. My belief has been that when loading on the unregulated leg caused the voltage to drop considerably from 120 down to 95V etc.

[quabillion]

Mrwizzard- Glad to see some old friends are still here and the 1440 is still more than enough, by about a factor of 2, since I have given up on running the A/C with it. LOL Been pretty busy what with getting married, divorced, jail, all that kind of horrible stuff.

Professor- Glad to hear about the cart. Did you do a DIY job or did you order one of those ready made cart roofs with the panels built in? The honda EU is back to OEM condition, the propane conversion just didnt work out with the eco throttle no matter how hard I tried. I did get the land, 40 acres for $4500 with an incredible 360* view from the top of my mountian, it is the tallest hill for at least 10 miles in all directions plus I can see another mountian 40 miles away. I plan to put a windmill generator on top where the wind always blows hard and also some raido antennas up there too.

Next project is a propane converted Kohler Command 18hp connected to the gen head from my non-working Champ as well as an automotive A/C compressor and alternator. So from a single package I will get 12V DC, 120/240V AC, and air conditioning.

Speaking of my champ; I never did figure out what the problem is. It ran great for about a month, then it ran out of gas one day and has never run since then. I have removed the head several times to check the head gasket, valves and cylinder walls for scratches. I never found anything that looked even a little bit bad, yet the engine feels like it has zero compression.

[professor95]

gnolivos wrote:
Hello all. Simple question...

Can anyone confirm that on the Champion C46540 generator, one can use the RV Plug (L5-30P, 3 prong, 30 Watt outlet) to power up 120V devices at home, WHILE MAINTAINING A REGULATED VOLTAGE?

The reason I ask is because my tests on the 120/240V outlet indicate that only one leg is regulated, and it caused all sorts of issues with my generator cord. (2 outlet at the end of the cord were regulated, the other 2 where not).

I'm planning on using one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Cable-25-Foot-Generator-3-Outlets/dp/B000289BAK

Thanks for any help!

Look at the wiring diagram found here.

When you are using the 30 AMP 120 volt TT30R outlet both MW1 and MW2 are in parallel and appear to the AVR as one winding, not two. Therefore, there should be no issue with regulation.

Now, that said, when you connect to the L14-30R the selector switch must be in the 240 volt position. This cuts off all voltage to the 120 volt outlets and places MW1 and MW2 in series. Once again, the series windings appear to be just one larger, continuous winding to the AVR and 240 VAC will be fully regulated.

But, an issue can develop when using the L14-30R in the 240 volt mode to create two 120 volt branch circuits from the outlet with a common neutral. The issue is the windings may not be equally loaded - meaning MW1 may be connected to a 13 amp load and MW2 connected to an 8 amp load. The voltage drop OHM's Law describes will naturally create a difference between MW1 and MW2 at the outlet. For this reason, I prefer to use the 30 amp TT outlet and feed a break-out box with two standard 120 VAC duplex outlets.

Bottom line - this is not a regulation issue related to the AVR being connected to MW1 as shown in the wiring diagram. It is a loading issue.

I would like to know what "all sorts of issues" you experienced with your generator cord. This could help me considerably to further understand how to answer any remaining questions you may have.

[tvman44]

I don't see how only one leg would be regulated. Seems impossible to me.

[gnolivos]

Hello all. Simple question...

Can anyone confirm that on the Champion C46540 generator, one can use the RV Plug (L5-30P, 3 prong, 30 Watt outlet) to power up 120V devices at home, WHILE MAINTAINING A REGULATED VOLTAGE?

The reason I ask is because my tests on the 120/240V outlet indicate that only one leg is regulated, and it caused all sorts of issues with my generator cord. (2 outlet at the end of the cord were regulated, the other 2 where not).

I'm planning on using one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Cable-25-Foot-Generator-3-Outlets/dp/B000289BAK

Thanks for any help!

[professor95]

DrBaker

For LPG conversion also try this thread.

There is more in the present thread about doing the conversion without drilling the carb - just using a homemade fuel block and bolt on aspirator.

I am still running LPG on both my 40008 (6.5 HP electric start) and my 13 HP 7500 I have for home back-up. Absolutely no complaints or problems. The engines have done extremely well with propane as fuel.

[DrBaker]

professor95 wrote:

DrBaker wrote:
What's the trick to searching this thread?

I tried doing searches for "champion electric start kit", "champion electric start conversion", and "champion propane conversion". All 3 attempts came up with nothing. What should I be doing to find this info? I bet it's all in here somewhere.

I would like to find the info on doing a propane conversion, adding electric start, and adding remote start to a Champ 4000/3500. If anyone can give me a link or instructions to find it on my own, I would appreciate it.

Use the advanced search feature, type in your keywords and (:Z ) add professor95 to the author box. Select search in the archives (over 12 months.)

Be sure you are searching in Tech Issues

All of the above topics are ones that I have extensively covered. If the search feature is working (sometimes it is not and you get an error) you should find the section.

That sounds like just the info I need (to get the info I need).:)

I have been following the 2000 inverter thread since the begining and got mine as soon as they hit the Sam's Club.

I just ordered the Cabela's Weekender package (Champ 4000, wheel kit, and cover) for $319 and $5 shipping. Time to start catching up on this thread. However, I'm not a total noobie to the 4000/3500 as I did have the Tractor Supply one briefly. It went home with a co-worker who like it so much that she bought it from me.

edit to add: Looks like a no go for me. I got the Forum Error Page when I tried to do the search.

[professor95]

DrBaker wrote:
What's the trick to searching this thread?

I tried doing searches for "champion electric start kit", "champion electric start conversion", and "champion propane conversion". All 3 attempts came up with nothing. What should I be doing to find this info? I bet it's all in here somewhere.

I would like to find the info on doing a propane conversion, adding electric start, and adding remote start to a Champ 4000/3500. If anyone can give me a link or instructions to find it on my own, I would appreciate it.

Use the advanced search feature, type in your keywords and (:Z ) add professor95 to the author box. Select search in the archives (over 12 months.)

Be sure you are searching in Tech Issues

All of the above topics are ones that I have extensively covered. If the search feature is working (sometimes it is not and you get an error) you should find the section.

[DrBaker]

What's the trick to searching this thread?

I tried doing searches for "champion electric start kit", "champion electric start conversion", and "champion propane conversion". All 3 attempts came up with nothing. What should I be doing to find this info? I bet it's all in here somewhere.

I would like to find the info on doing a propane conversion, adding electric start, and adding remote start to a Champ 4000/3500. If anyone can give me a link or instructions to find it on my own, I would appreciate it.

[tvman44]

Good info, teamslacker.