3000W Chinese Gensets Info.
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Mar-02-2005 06:20 AM
professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.
In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.
Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.
What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.
Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.
I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.
Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.
No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.
Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.
Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.
We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.
Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.
Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.
This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......
Randy
For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.
I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:
Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)
The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.
The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.
The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.
ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.
The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.
The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.
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Jun-12-2008 06:45 PM
I think all will agree, the Honda is a ideal 2000w genset. For me, what is needed is a small genset to chg the batts and one to run the A/C. With this heat it's all the 3000w Champion can do to operate the 13,500 BTU A/C.
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Jun-12-2008 06:42 PM
all the air come in one end flows over the inverter electronics, then the alternator, then the engine, then over / around the muffler
very efficient no scatter, very little turbulence, totaly different than the open frame setup
But I Can Not understand it for you !
....
Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s
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Jun-12-2008 06:00 PM
I'm tempted to pull all the plastic off and fire it up to see how much louder it is.
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Jun-12-2008 05:33 PM
Is there any insulation on the mufflers of the so called quiet/silent H & Y's? Please tell us the best way to quiet the open frame gensets.
As far as I can tell there is no insulation on my Honda 2000 anywhere. The muffler is sitting right behind a fairly open-louvered panel and it is visible as not being insulated. On one side is a cover that is removable for servicing (oil change, etc) and that is all it is, a plastic cover. Behind the cover is the engine. On the top is a little door that accesses the spark plug. Again, it is just the thin plastic shrouding and behind that is the engine.
I will snap a few photos for the thread.
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Jun-12-2008 04:31 PM
Question:
Is there any insulation on the mufflers of the so called quiet/silent H & Y's? Please tell us the best way to quiet the open frame gensets.
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Jun-12-2008 11:00 AM
blkfe wrote:
I tried "yellow" house insulation without success. It turned black and started to smoke. Not sure what the difference is but maybe someone with more knowledge of insulation than I will chime in.
Brad
Here is a product that is designed for the purpose. It is used to wrap headers and manifolds on performance vehicles to reduce heat under the hood.
Exhaust Wrap
It may be a little more expensive but it will last a lot longer than products not designed for the purpose.
Wrap all the pipe and muffler. Heat in areas contained by the side panels and gas tank will go down greatly.
BTW, if you call a CSK (Checker, Schuck's, or Kragen) store, have the item set aside for pickup when you go to the store, you can save 10% off the top.
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Jun-12-2008 09:41 AM
Old & Slow wrote:
Crankshop1000,
Looks good. Several questions. Do you have a heat problem? Are you interested in Champion's new add-on Electric Start and remote control kits? Is your installation on a slide out tray? A $400 genset in place of maybe $4000, WOW!
I did a test run before extending the exhaust pipe and the enclosure did get quite hot.The exhaust extension seems to have taken care of excessive heat.I ran the genny in 93 degree heat and high humidity powering the roof air ,inverter etc and it did fine.I would be interested in electric start if it included an automatic choke, otherwise the unit seems to start on the first pull, so it's not a big deal.Hard to picture they could offer a reasonably priced ES kit that would upgrade the unit to remote start capable.I may fabricate a slide out tray for the genny in the future, but there isn't really much room above the genny, so it would have to be a well thought out slide.The genny isn't much trouble to wiggle out of the enclosure to fuel and service, especially when you consider the run time on a full tank. The original installation had the genny fueled by the main veh tank with a small electric fuel pump, but I didn't feel it was worth the effort to adapt the Champion to a pressure feed versus a gravity feed.I'm using a couple of cargo straps to hold the unit in place during travel in addition to a security cable lock setup.The whole genny can be pulled out in a couple of minutes through the door. Kind of nice having the original automatic transfer switch in place too, just fire up the genny and it transfers the load to the genny after about 45 seconds.Chuck.
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Jun-12-2008 08:37 AM
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Jun-12-2008 07:59 AM
Does this look like it will work for RV use, or am I going to have to Craigslist it.
http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Max-Generator-Non-CARB-Compliant/dp/B000GLGM5U/
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Jun-12-2008 07:44 AM
Looks good. Several questions. Do you have a heat problem? Are you interested in Champion's new add-on Electric Start and remote control kits? Is your installation on a slide out tray? A $400 genset in place of maybe $4000, WOW!
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Jun-12-2008 04:27 AM
Pretty straight forward.The addition of a hand choke cable to the original choke lever gives access to the choke for starting.I also clocked the pull starter to access to the front for easier pull starting while in the housing. The genny is pulled out to refill gas tank and service checks.
The exhaust extension I added.
The view with the door closed.
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Jun-11-2008 06:35 PM
professor95 wrote:
It is rare for the internal parts of the governor to malfunction - but it can happen.
...
It is "tricky" to get everything back in sync if something is bent or broken.
After having a good look at it it appears the governor isn't reacting internally as it should. I got ahold of a new Champion and when a load is applied the governor lever arm moves easily and quickly to compensate. My Wen barely reacts. The throttles on both machines feel the same to my finger when the engine is off.
Is there anything in the governor assembly that could bind or wear out in 1 day's use? This thing ran perfectly the first night--the problem occurred during the next full day of use.
How is the governor adjusted if it's out of whack or if I take it apart?
2010 Neo all-aluminum 7x20 CH
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Jun-11-2008 01:50 PM
I love that stuff, always keep a roll handy, in fact its with in arm's reach at this very moment
I have used it to patch/weather proof holes in my Alu RV roof, then cover the area that with 'eternabond' then put 'liquid roof' over the area, permanent repair, never leak again
i've use it for quick patches for holes in leaky roofs of other Rv's, clean and dry the spot tape it, then when the sunny weather comes back do some liquid roof
But I Can Not understand it for you !
....
Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s
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Jun-11-2008 01:26 PM
professor95 wrote:blkfe wrote:
I tried "yellow" house insulation without success. It turned black and started to smoke. Not sure what the difference is but maybe someone with more knowledge of insulation than I will chime in.
Brad
Yellow vs. Pink....... hummmm. They are different brands. I know there are some newer "no itch" insulations on the market that may contain different materials. Turning black and smoking is not a situation I have encountered. But, bleaching of the color from pink to white does occur.
Yea, I'd like to know what is going on as well. Most likely something other than just spun glass fibers in the insulation. Perhaps some fiberglass matt from the autobody section of Advance Auto would serve the purpose as well? I have used that as a heat wrap close to the headers on the TV with success. Just don't know about the yellow stuff.
I got the insulation from a friend who was insulating his shop. I'm sure he has some left over. I will get the details next time I am in his area. (week or two)
Brad
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Jun-11-2008 12:16 PM
Old & Slow wrote:
Professor95,
I notice with interest your Electro-Choke. With a LPG conversion, is it possible to start the engine with a Electro-Prime on the unit on your install or the retro kit from US-CARB, I continue to have a desire for remote start.
My remote start/stop/transfer switch is home-brewed and hardwired. I do not use an Electro-Prime. I can create enough vacuum with the choke on to activate the low pressure regulator. It takes a second or two more of cranking, but with electric start it is no big deal. Pulling a rope might be a hassle without using the primer.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.