3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[alltenofus]

I have read the entire thread. Thanks to the Prof and all of you for the great information. Due to being able to return the unit if needed I bought the UST from Pepboys for $329. They had a WEN but it had one 120V 20 A "U" type plug and the 120/240V 4 prong twist lock. The UST has 2 120V 20A U plugs and one 3 prong 120V 25A twist lock. As mentioned in other posts there was no wiring diagram so I cannot tell if the 25A is two parallel coils or one heavy duty one. Anyway the plug is rated 25A so thats better than the WEN. This WEN did not have the 120/240 switch. The UST does not have 220V available but I do not need it. If I have to use it for house power in an outage I'll just run cords.

Questions: There's no instructions for wiring the 3 prong twist plug. I have to suppose the L shaped locking prong is the ground. With an ungrounded unit I should still see low voltage from the neutral to ground as per a household plug? THen 120 or so on the hot to ground and then hot to neutral? The other two prongs are identical - no color coding. Someone mentioned they had wired this up but I could not locate the post when I went back to look.

Has anyone found a wiring diagram or a website for these units. I get nothing on searches for the importer or UST.

I have a calibrated noise meter at work I can borrow and make some sound readings I'll post when I get it running. It does have the large automotive style muffler.

[Navychop]

I believe American Household bought Coleman in 98, after a period of decline at Coleman. Jarden later bought the whole works, American Household, including Coleman, etc, out of bankruptcy proceedings.
My Coleman 5000ER was bought in the early 90's, but it was clear there were problems even then. Many of the units were DOA at the store, many failed with low hours. Design was poor- I literally could not find anyone willing to work on them. They were viewed as disposable. Also, something about a tapered spline shaft or some such made the engine of limited value. I gave it to some guy who made a go cart out of it.

P.S.- I know LaPlace. I grew up in NOLA.

[WetWilly]

Navychop wrote:
Let me assure you, as a former owner (gen died, unrepairable), that the "C" word is a very dirty word, indeed. Loud, unreliable, poor quality power output. And did I mention, it was VERY loud. I'm tempted to say such garbage should not be allowed to be sold. Suffice to say, I am very unlikely to buy anything with that dirty word attached to it. Since the name was sold, the quality is garbage.

The only reason I was considering the "C" word was that the ProForce 3125W model was mentioned here as a Yamaha EF2600 clone. It looks like Pep Boys is using the ProForce as their mid-price model since they've moved the price on their 3500W Honda clones north of $300.

FYI, here's a link to Skibane's post on the ProForce 3125:
Pics/description of ProForce 3125W & Yamaha EF-2600

Edit: Wow, I didn't realize that Coleman had been acquired by American Household, Inc., aka Sunbeam and former home of Chainsaw Al Dunlap. That explains a LOT.

[cmg3500]

Navychop wrote:
Let me assure you, as a former owner (gen died, unrepairable), that the "C" word is a very dirty word, indeed. Loud, unreliable, poor quality power output. And did I mention, it was VERY loud. I'm tempted to say such garbage should not be allowed to be sold. Suffice to say, I am very unlikely to buy anything with that dirty word attached to it. Since the name was sold, the quality is garbage.

I have one of the "C" brand gen's.It is a 5kw,it is about 11 years old.Been running good,got me throuch Katrina for a week and a half.Now I agree with you its LOUD,very loud,but I haven't had any problems with the power output.(have it tied into my house with a transfer switch).

The main thing I was wondering,Is you said "since the name was sold the , the quality is garbage"
When was it sold?
I also have a Power Pro 3500 I bought right after Katrina,so i've been following the forum.
Thanks

[Navychop]

Let me assure you, as a former owner (gen died, unrepairable), that the "C" word is a very dirty word, indeed. Loud, unreliable, poor quality power output. And did I mention, it was VERY loud. I'm tempted to say such garbage should not be allowed to be sold. Suffice to say, I am very unlikely to buy anything with that dirty word attached to it. Since the name was sold, the quality is garbage.

[WetWilly]

I was a lurker, but registered to thank hgarraway for the heads up on the Homier $199 deal. I was just getting things together for this year's hurricane season after going for two weeks without power during Hurricane Wilma (don't want to do THAT again!). Was waffling between the Coleman ProForce 3125 and Wen PowerPro 3500 at Pep Boys when this post showed up. Bit the bullet at $268 shipped to Florida with tax, which was a good thing since it looks like the price just jumped back up to $299.

Having stumbled into this thread nearly totally ignorant about generators, I'd also like to thank the Professor and many others who have managed an amazing feat - keeping an incredibly informative, substantive, and civil discussion on the Internet going for over a year.

[jwitt]

Professor,
Great news on the soundproof kit. It seems like a no-brainer. It should sell very well, both as an upgrade and original model. If Champion does not get it to market very soon, one of their competitors probably will.
JIM

[Toyota_Camper]

I received the same Homier unit for Christmas. My wife and mom paid $299 plus shipping. So you got a good deal! I've only got to play with mine a few times, still winter in Ohio.

Ran everything in my camper, but too cold for AC compressor to kick on to give a full test yet. I have the 13.5 btu unit, so I'm anxious to try it out.

Starts right up and is not super loud.

Nate

[professor95]

I received a rather interesting e-mail yesterday. It was an invitation from a "Mr. Johns" to attend a trade show in China to view a line of portable generators. Unfortunately, a plane ticket was not attached.

The company identified in the e-mail is HAUCEN. I have never heard of them before yesterday nor do I know of a US distributor.

What caught my eye was a line of generators they make called Silenmaster. The one pictured here is a 2,500 watt unit rated at 62 dB, a very respectably low sound level.

But what I want to share is the way the generator is built. It...

[professor95]

I just came back from a Homier mobile merchant sale here in Hattiesburg, MS. The flyer advertised the 6.5 hp genset (#03237) that's like the ELIM 3000 for $239. I took my dad to buy one since my ELIM 3000 served us both after Katrina. When we checked out it rang up as $199 which is Internet price before shipping. With tax it came to $213. Sounds just like the ELIM 3000. It's blue (probably to match the FEMA blue hurricane roofs around here . It delivers 120 only to 2 receptacles and I didn't have my voltmeter to see if they were in phase but I'm going to check . That info may be on the thread already. Here's a LINK to Homier's description.

Yes Hugh, this is a JungDong generator. It comes from the same Chinese plant that made the original ELM3000. The 120 volt output will provide full wattage to a single line. The unit could be reverse wired for 220 if required. Harbor Freight Tools and Cumming's Tools also sell the same unit, but the color and label are different (as is the price).

Other than the problems associated with getting warranty service should it be needed, it is one heck of a good price!

[Gulfcoast]

Thanks for the link "hgarraway"... I just can't turn down that deal.


Thanks

[blazer8]

Wow!! That's cheap!!

[hgarraway]

I just came back from a Homier mobile merchant sale here in Hattiesburg, MS. The flyer advertised the 6.5 hp genset (#03237) that's like the ELIM 3000 for $239. I took my dad to buy one since my ELIM 3000 served us both after Katrina. When we checked out it rang up as $199 which is Internet price before shipping. With tax it came to $213. Sounds just like the ELIM 3000. It's blue (probably to match the FEMA blue hurricane roofs around here :). It delivers 120 only to 2 receptacles and I didn't have my voltmeter to see if they were in phase but I'm going to check . That info may be on the thread already. Here's a LINK to Homier's description.

Several other items at the show were marked higher than the flyer price but rang up correctly or, as in the case of the generator, cheaper.

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
IMHO, keep the generator you currently have. Replace the converter.

I agree completely. My converter upgrade is the best money I have spent so far on my camper.

[professor95]

What a great forum. Thanks for the info on my converter. I've got to solve this problem with my generator and stay within my meager budget. I camp without electricity most every day, often in the pines here in Northern California. Is it possible or warranted for me to adjust the frequency of the Champion? Do you think I will have a similar problem with the ELIM or the Wen units. Does anyone have any familiarity with the electric start 6.5hp units offered at Amazon.com ($299) by toolshopusa or the ones offered at Dexin Intl.(DuroPower)? The GG3500 at toolshopusa seem like a good buy with the 6.5hp engine with electric start, but I guess the important issues for an RV are amps at the plug and the Hz output. Cheers

My personal opinion is that you are trying to fix the problem from the wrong end.

I doubt that any of the other generators you referenced will be any better at frequency stability than your Champion. The only generators I can think of that will provide this stablity are the ones using inverter technology like the upper ended Honda and Kippor. Those are 3 or more times the price of the Chinese clones and could be rough for someone on a budget.

If I were in your position, I would be looking to replace my older converter with one of the new switching types. The benefits (faster charging, higher output, full phase charging cycle (i.e. bulk, acceptance, float and equalization), and possibly longer battery life are reason enough to abandon a converter depending on 60+ year old technology (Frank Sola INVENTED the ferroresonant transformer in 1936 and the company that bears his name had an exclusive patent on the technology until 1986.)

Now that I have learned a little more about the ferrorsonate devices, I am not at all sure having a Chinese generator of this type with an engine speed set to provide exactly 60Hz will solve the problem either. There is some artifact in the output signal that might be unfriendly to your converter. Several weeks back I made the statement that there is nothing in your RV that would warrant problems from the noise on the signal from these generators. Now, I know there are at least two devices that might have problems (Samsung microwave ovens and ferroresonate converters).

IMHO, keep the generator you currently have. Replace the converter.