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3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy


For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at โ€œcloningโ€ reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a โ€œrunningโ€ display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. โ€œSupposedlyโ€ Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for โ€œabove average qualityโ€ Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an โ€œavailability listingโ€.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings โ€“ most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is โ€œreasonablyโ€ quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a โ€œlook alikeโ€ eng...






















Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.
10,029 REPLIES 10,029

AZDesertRat
Explorer
Explorer
I bought the Champion the day after Thanksgiving and was surprised the first time I plugged it in and it would not run my 13.5 Brisk Air AC unit. I spoke to someone at Champion who explained to me thw left hand side of the 125/250v was 15 amps and the right hand side was 20 amps. He said the two duplex outlets are the same with the left hand outlets at 15 A and the right 20A. I rewired my new 125/250 plug so it used the 20A side and now it doesn't even burp with the AC, microwave and a few lights all operating at the same time. I don't remember who I spoke with but it was a technical engineer if I remember right.
So far I am very pleased with the generator and can't wait until this summer when I do some what used to be primitive camping that will now be modern!
2014 Ford F-150 XLT SuperCrew 4x4 Ecoboost
2006 Ragen FS2500 Toy Hauler
2006 Arctic Cat Prowler

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
one 120 VAC winding is protected by a 20 ampere circuit breaker and the other, identical, winding is protected by a 15 ampere circuit breaker. In my generator, the left duplex receptacle is limited to 15A, and the right duplex receptacle is limited to 20A. The L14-30R receptacle is essentially useless, because it is a 30 ampere device that is limited to 20A on one side and 15A on the other side.


This is the first report on the forum that I am aware of concerning mismatched circuit breakers on Champion equipment. Considering the other QC problems you discovered in your generator, I can't help but wonder if the person assembling the generator might have simply selected one breaker of the wrong size? Do you have a factory schematic? If so, what size breakers are shown on the drawing? Have other Champion owners discovered the same problem? I for one would like to know what is going on and if this was intentional or accidental on the part of the assembly plant.

You might want to contact this gentleman as well:

Paul Cole - Technical Engineer
Champion Power Equipment
1715 Business Center Dr.
Duarte, CA 91010
Phone no. (toll free) 877-338-0999
Cell no. 626-230-5248
Fax no. 626-932-1977
Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.

jorbill2or
Explorer II
Explorer II
Post Or Pm Me please! ericolemmon
Bill

Smokeman
Explorer
Explorer
Post those instructions ericolemmon!
TV: 2006 Dodge 3500 Laramie Dually QC 4x4 CTD
TT: 2005 Prowler Regal AX6 330FKDS
TC: 2008 Eagle Cap 950s

ericlemmon
Explorer
Explorer
GETTING FULL POWER FROM A C46535 GENERATOR: Based upon the generally favorable reports on this and other sites, I bought a Champion Model C46535 generator from Kragen Auto Parts, for $299. Its serial number (stamped on the side of the engine block) is 051006822.

As an electrical power engineer, it's my habit to check over any electrical device for loose connections, before applying power to it. In this case, it was good that I did, because all three of the terminal nuts on the generator were loose, and one nut was backed off almost two turns. I should mention that my generator was factory-sealed in its original shipping box, so I attribute this oversight to poor quality control. Using an 8mm nut runner, I quickly tightened all terminals. Perhaps I should not that these terminals are exposed when you remove the two screws on the louvered end cap from the generator.

My generator has one NEMA L14-30R twist-lock receptacle for 120/240 VAC loads, and two NEMA 5-20R duplex receptacles (four outlers total) for 120 VAC loads. The owner's manual states that you need a NEMA L5-30P plug, which is not supplied, but such a plug will not mate with the L14-30R receptacle!

As others have determined, one cannot draw the full 3500 watts from this generator using any normal connection. However, that's exactly what I want to do- and I'll get there soon. In the existing configuration, the generator's two output windings are connected so that one 120 VAC winding is protected by a 20 ampere circuit breaker and the other, identical, winding is protected by a 15 ampere circuit breaker. In my generator, the left duplex receptacle is limited to 15A, and the right duplex receptacle is limited to 20A. The L14-30R receptacle is essentially useless, because it is a 30 ampere device that is limited to 20A on one side and 15A on the other side. This is technically a violation of the National Electrical Code which requires that receptacles be wired to branch circuits which match the receptacle rating.

To get the full generator rating at 120 VAC, I rewired the armature windings so that they are in parallel and properly phased. The automatic voltage regulator senses only one of the output windings, so I was pretty certain that paralleling the armature windings would have no effect. I was right. The output voltage can be adjusted with a tiny screw that peeks out from the potting compound in the AVR unit, but I have not felt the need to tweak it- yet.

I pulled out all of the original wiring harness, along with the original circuit breakers. I then ran #10 AWG stranded THWN wire from the now-rewired terminal strip on the generator to a new 30A circuit breaker. The load side of this breaker then feeds a new NEMA L5-30R twist-lock receptacle that replaces the original L14-30R receptacle. I then ran a wire back to a new 20A circuit breaker that is downstream of the 30A breaker, which then feeds the two 5-20R duplex receptacles. I did not connect the voltmeter, since I have a generator transfer panel that is metered.

If I were planning to use this generator to power an RV, I could have installed a standard 30 ampere "TT" receptacle in place of the L5-30R receptacle, but the TT receptacle requires a larger diameter hole.

There are two limits to the amount of electrical power you can get out of any generator. The available horsepower of the prime mover puts an absolute cap on the output, regardless of the voltage used. Based upon the 6.5 HP engine and a reasonable efficiency of 80%, I would expect the engine to falter when the load exceeds about 3800 watts. The inertia of the rotating mass (generator and engine) will allow spurts well above that figure, but the flywheel effect only helps for a few seconds. The other limitation is electrical- the size of wire used in the armature windings. The more current drawn through these wires, the hotter they get. In most of the applications to which this generator might be used, only one of the windings will be loaded. That means that no more than 2400 watts is available ( 120 volts times 20 amperes). Since I only have a 120 VAC load to feed, I now have both windings in parallel which gives me a maximum available capacity of 3600 watts (120 volts times 30 amperes).

I will post instructions for accomplishing this modification, if there is sufficient interest

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
professer

you are correct, and i wasn't thinking about, that application , consisdering the size of the units we are talking about

IMO a couple of good heavy 12 or 10 gauge extension cords, run from the genset to the house and powering only want needs to be powered, is a lot safer operation for the majority of people and cheaper than getting a licsenced electrican to install the transfer gear..

price being the main concern for most people , the safest route is NO back feeding, just some good extension cords, ford the fridge & freezer or FANS and TV or electric heater or electric blankets

these portable are NOT designed to run your electric range or electric dryer
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s

baddad
Explorer
Explorer
Well I think i found the manufactuer of my elim storm series 66oo watt yamaha tech generator. It seems to be a company called yamalee amazing what a little digging will do. They also make some smaller generators with dy 3000 marked on them. Man if you looked at my generator and went to a yamaha seller website and looked at their 6600 watt generator, The only thing i can say is man these guys are good at copying at least the external looks of the yamaha. Eliminternational will not tell you who makes the generators only that they are from china. Just sum random info.

mrfixit454
Explorer
Explorer
Well I purchased the ELIM Storm Series 3000 from Ebay this morning. So far the transaction went smooth. Instant emails from ELIM and I sent payment immediately. They accepted the payment and I am awaiting tracking # which I probably won't get until Monday. If others are interested, I will report about the generator after I get it and test it out a little.
Thanks
2012 Lance 830 w/Tent Option
2006 2500 Dodge Ram Megacab, Cummins, Auto.

feistycapn
Explorer
Explorer
I just finished assembling the Nikota I picked up yesterday from Costco. It is different than the one pictured a few pages back by Hawklover. The control panel is on the side of the frame rather than on the End of the generator head. Duplex outlet, on/off switch, two push to reset breakers, ac volt meter, 120/240 selector switch and a ground post. Motor and literature shows Jiangdong as manufacturer. Schematic is identical to the one posted by Hawklover.

Literature & box says it's distributed by American Power Products The only generator listed on their site is different than the Costco and is "Factor Refurbished". I think this is unlikely due to the logistics involved returning it to China. In fact everything on their site is refurbished so I suspect they distribute "firsts" thru Costco and others and sell the returns on their web site. The Costco one is not advertised as refurbished.

I'll try for a picture tomorrow. Local Costco and one in Cincinnati had same model. Still $279.

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
why in the world ? would you want a neutral on a 220 circuit / load

it's 220 because it comes from both windings, there is NO neutral in any motor or device using 220vac

the device may be grounded and bonded which would be connected to a neutral on a RESidential power circuit from the power utility but only because the neutral was bonded to ground not because the device needs a neutral wire: BUT NOT on a portable generator


You are 100% right for 220 motors and resistive heating elements. But, some appliances do require both 120 volts and 220 volts and thus the neutral wire must be present. Now, I realize we are not going to be powering the following from a 3,000 watt generator, but a residential dryer is one example. The motor is 120 volts as are the timers. But the heating element is 240. An electric range is another. The clock, lights and sometimes surface burners and timers are 120. Heating elements in the oven are 240.

In the case of my ELM3000, which did not provide a neutral on the 220 outlet (I had to add it), it would NOT have properly powered my residential SEP (Service Entrance Panel) thru my transfer switch and subpanel. Yes, my well pump would have worked, but my 120 outlets would not have worked without the neutral from the generator with straight 220 AC.

The duplex outlets in my kitchen (small appliance branch circuits) are wired in split configuration. The tab between the two sections of the duplex outlet is broken out. These outlets are fed by bridged 220 breakers in my SEP. An open neutral, or nonexistent one in these circuits, would create a very dangers condition for both the appliance and the user. Many kitchens in homes from the 70's and 80's before the NEC required GFCI or shock detectors on SABCs are wired in this manner.

A guy with a RV that has a 50 amp connection would need the neutral if he wanted to feed both legs of his 50 amp cord from each of the coils in the generator (rather than bridging them with a 50/30 amp adapter and feeding 120 only). Without a neutral connection to the generator, either a dangerous or non-working situation - or both - will occur.

The key word is "portable generator". But, I strongly suspect many users will try to set them up so that they can provide power by backfeeding thru something like a dryer outlet to a residetial SEP, a practice I know is all too common in my area (but also potentially dangerous). In these situations, you gotta have a neutral, and the generator frame should be bonded to ground as the neutral is not at ground potential as manufactured.

Note: NEC codes do not legally allow backfeeding a SEP with a portable generator through something like a dryer outlet without a transfer switch. Doing this with the main breaker on will also backfeed power to the utility lines and could seriously hurt or kill folks working on the power lines. Sometimes well intentioned folks who backfeed forget to turn off the main breaker - a transfer switch is a failsafe device to prevent this "forgetfulness".

Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.

Navychop
Explorer
Explorer
Well, the Launtop certainly looks interesting, esp their silent diesel generators. But I can't find any actually for sale via Google. I guess that tells me something about parts availability.

Back to Kipor/Honda.
2004.5 Dodge 3500 Laramie Quad LB SRW CTD 48RE 4.10 4x4
97 30' Coachmen Royal TT traded in April '08 on a
2008 Keystone Challenger 35CKQ fifth wheel
Air Safe 25K air hitch
Kipor 3500Ti (avoid- no support)

boucher1
Explorer
Explorer
Professor95

Thank you for the info.

This whole generator bit is like a Soap on TV, and the question is, "whom is sleeping with whom"?
Well I guest, it's all about Free enterprise, and the Chinese are learning fast.

Thanks again

Au revoir, ร  la prochaine.

Roger

Roger

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
toprudder wrote:
Hawklover wrote:
Like I said, electrical is not my strong point, so maybe I'm missing something here and heading for disaster, but it seemed to work fine. I'd love for someone to take a look at the pics and specs and let me know what they think. Sorry for writing a book, it's my first post and I didn't know where to stop!
TIA,
Russ

It does look like it is switchable between 120 and 240. The only question I have is about the schematic, it appears that when it is in 240v mode, there is no neutral on the 240v outlet. If that is the case, it would be easy to correct by running a wire from the brown jumper in the schematic to the neutral pin on the connector.

If you want to connect the genset through a transfer switch into your house, you would need the neutral connected.


why in the world ? would you want a neutral on a 220 circuit / load

it's 220 because it comes from both windings, there is NO neutral in any motor or device using 220vac

the device may be grounded and bonded which would be connected to a neutral on a RESidential power circuit from the power utility but only because the neutral was bonded to ground not because the device needs a neutral wire: BUT NOT on a portable generator

I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
But I did find LAUNTOP see http://www.launtop.com/
Does any one know anything of this product?


Launtop is the Chinese manufacturer of the line of generators Elim International is now putting their label on. Reports on their use have been scarce on the forum.

Supposedly they are a large (and apparently successful) manufacturing enity specializing in diesel generators. You might find the video at this site interesting: http://launtop.en.alibaba.com/videoshow.html
Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.

boucher1
Explorer
Explorer
I've been watching and reading this Forum (3000w Chinese Gensets Info ) for the last 2 weeks. I must first thanks professor95 for having taken time to propagate his knowlege and others who also increase my knowledge on the above subject, I learned a lot.
As for me, in my area, (Montreal, Canada) I've not found "ELIM" and it's manufacturer. But I did find LAUNTOP see http://www.launtop.com/
Does any one know anything of this product? Do they manufacturer or is this just a marketing firm. Is this an other knockout from a Chinese manufacturer.
Has anyone purchase an LT2500CL, LT3000CL OR LT3800CL generator?
I do know one interesting thing, I seen a water pump by LAUNTOP at Cosco in Laval (a city next to Montreal
Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Au Revoir, ร  la prochaine.

Roger