3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Capt-Ron]

Jim-Linda wrote:
Pep Boys latest ad for the 3500W Power Pro has gone up $20. Sounds like they are selling a ton of them and importer is after more profit.

Jim

The Pep Boys here got 40 of them this morning and after honoring all the rain checks still had 10 left. Every one in this campground that was waiting have now been down to get theirs. One guy bought 3.

VicT, Glad to hear that you got you smoker under control, the 16 hour run should have broken it in for you.


Capt Ron

[toprudder]

VicT wrote:
As a result of the good customer service I got from Elim I now have a 1000 on the way and am looking forward to its lighter weight and smaller footprint. I was thinking It would run my small 800 microwave and my trailers furnace fan when needed (not simultaneously) but I see that may be pushing the 1000's limite. Any opinions on that.

The 1000w should be plenty for the furnace fan. Mine pulls 10 amps at 12-13v, should end up being less than 200w. However, this is powered through the converter, and the converter charges the battery. Depending on the size of your converter, the generator may or may not run the converter, but unless you have a converter with more than 60 amps output (about 900w) you should be ok.

[mokanmikey]

Questions about the Champion C46535:

What would the difference be in using the 30 amp 120 volt twistlock with a L5-30/30RV adapter verses plugging in with a standard 30amp rv/household outlet adapter?
Will I get more power to the trailer with the twistlock or is it just changing the hardware to access it?

May be a dumb question but after reading this entire post a few times my mind seems to have short circuited :E

PatJ wrote:
This generator uses (basically) a single 240 volt center-tapped winding, creating basically two 120V circuits out of phase from one another. This means that the generator is not able to supply its full (claimed) 3500 watt capacity to a single 120 volt circuit

Yates9 mentioned he was going to rewire his to solve this?
any updates or comments?

Thanks all!

[VicT]

Remember the spilled oil & the heavy smoke (mosquito fogger)
I took my Elim 3000 out for the weekend after having cleaned the Air box and attempted to drain any oil from the Muffler. Although I had cleaned the airbox earlier I washed the filter and re-oiled it. When removed the muffler I was unable to get any oil out of it (probably to baked on by now) so I never did use the acetone as suggested earlier. I ran it for a total of about 16 hours in 3 days (Grandson watching movies ,raining) and I detected minimal smoke for the first 3/5 minutes and then it ran clean. There was no oil consumption. I think this baby is now working the way it should. It is louder than a Honda but not bad. There was another generator running some distance from mine and when we stood in the middle you could only hear the other one.

As a result of the good customer service I got from Elim I now have a 1000 on the way and am looking forward to its lighter weight and smaller footprint. I was thinking It would run my small 800 microwave and my trailers furnace fan when needed (not simultaneously) but I see that may be pushing the 1000's limite. Any opinions on that.

[Jim-Linda]

Pep Boys latest ad for the 3500W Power Pro has gone up $20. Sounds like they are selling a ton of them and importer is after more profit.

Jim

[CamperAndy]

D8aCop wrote:
Ignore the Coleman part of my previous post -- I just found my answer -- seems to be "very noisy piece of [you know]" -- still interested in any other suggestions for smaller (about 1000w) gensets
thanks (I keep thinking search first ... search first then post ... sigh)

Actually it is not that noisy. It runs about 67 db at full load. Yes it is loud but no louder then many of the ones being talked about in this thread. Just to let you know it will not run the Micro or AC but will charge batteries and most of the typical resistive loads you want to use.

[toprudder]

D8aCop wrote:
Ignore the Coleman part of my previous post -- I just found my answer -- seems to be "very noisy piece of [you know]" -- still interested in any other suggestions for smaller (about 1000w) gensets
thanks (I keep thinking search first ... search first then post ... sigh)

The 1000w generator mentioned is a two-stroke engine. I think I have seen others that were not, you will want to double-check if that is important.

I would not mind the two-stroke too much as long as it is quiet and has a run time of at least 5 hours on a tank. You will have to mix gas/oil for the two-stroke. It will smoke a little and have more smell to it -- something to consider if there are other campers around.

[D8aCop]

Ignore the Coleman part of my previous post -- I just found my answer -- seems to be "very noisy piece of [you know]" -- still interested in any other suggestions for smaller (about 1000w) gensets
thanks (I keep thinking search first ... search first then post ... sigh)

[98clru]

Wide Load wrote:
One thing I can say is If I need repairs on my Honda's I can find a repair center in almost any city. If I need repair on a knock off?
Well who knows where or how long. Chuck it and buy a new on has been said. That's a $300 repair, if you can find one.......:E

Just out of curiosity, how many repairs have you needed on your honda's? I'm guessing if you take one to a authorized honda repair shop rates start at least $50 to even look at it. I've seen nothing but raves about honda's durability and reliability, but of course not even a honda will last forever. If these clones go half as long without needing a repair it may still be a good value even if it needs to be considered disposable.

I know waaay back in the thread, it was mentioned that for the LICENSED honda clones, most parts are interchangable, but as you mention, if not it's a $300 repair.

[D8aCop]

Having spent the last day reading all 80 pages -- Wow - what a great thread. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with other smaller (1000w) gens (I saw the heartland america post already). (I am willing to pass on the air while boondocking if I can get the batteries charged in a few hours each day.) The small honda gens are more $ then a full 3500w model (such as the elim3000). How noisy/dependable are the Coleman 1500w sports generators? Any other suggestions / models welcomed. BTW someone should really put all of this information into an on-line book for future camper types. thanks again / terry

[Wide_Load]

One thing I can say is If I need repairs on my Honda's I can find a repair center in almost any city. If I need repair on a knock off?
Well who knows where or how long. Chuck it and buy a new on has been said. That's a $300 repair, if you can find one.......:E

[bobgay]

RadioNeal, that was a good post. The problem of running out of fuel during a prolonged power outage is a tough one and requires some planning.
Emptyspaces, I ordered mine through their website, but did not specify how it was to be shipped. I think it came through USPS.
Bob

[Emptyspaces]

bobgay wrote:
Emptyspaces - Are you sure about the $15 shipping charge? They charged me $7, which I thought was excessive.
Bob

The first time I tried to order it the shipping was over $15.(Several weeks ago).
I emailed them asking if that was correct. They responded by saying sometimes their shipping calculator mis-calculates small items but they had it fixed.

Second time it would not calculate shipping at all. Later that day I tried again and it came to $14.20. I gave up figuring they just
seriously over charge like some do on EBay to add a little to the bottom line.

Just tried a minute ago and shipping is $12.20. This is to North Louisiana. You are right even $7 is a bit much since it could be sent for about $5 USPS Priority. UPS might be $7.

How did you order and ship (USPS or UPS)? Using their online system?
I'm thinking maybe if I phone them I can get the shipping right.

[bobgay]

Emptyspaces - Are you sure about the $15 shipping charge? They charged me $7, which I thought was excessive.
Bob

[RadioNeal]

jking2000 wrote:
I dropped by the my Local PepBoys and they have the Power Pro 3500 series, the sales man also showed me a Power Pro 5500 series from the same company. I am looking for an affordable RV generator as well as House Backup generator for Storm Season. Will this one work for both needs? Thanks for all the Information!

James King

The PowerPro 3500 should fill the bill for both RV and Home.

I bought a PowerPro 3500 at Pep Boys, and use it very effectively for power backup of my home here in storm-prone south Florida. Believe it or not, this was done to replace a perfectly good Coleman 5500 Watt unit that I used during Hurricane Frances last fall. (The Coleman used 14 gallons of gas in 24 hours, and is very loud. I now keep it as a backup which I can use to run the water heater if needed, or use if the Power Pro should break down.)

Having gone through Hurricane Andrew in 1992, and Hurricane Frances last Fall, My philosophy is to think "MINIMALIST," When doing emergency power planning. I also freely confess that I like my creature comforts.

Let me make a couple of points:

1. Forget running the central air. Equip one room, such as the master bedroom with an Energy Star rated room A/C unit. (Also great while waiting for a service tech if your central A/C breaks down.)
Ditto for washers, dryers, water heaters, electric ranges, Etc.

2. When considering emergency power for a home one must consider the amount of FUEL that will be consumed. In the event of a severe weather event, such as hurricane Frances that hit my area last fall, one may not be able to easily obtain fuel for many days after the storm. It took 8 days for power company to restore service in my location. If you run a Power Pro 24 hours a day, it will consume about 10 gallons at nearly full load. That means 50 gallons will keep you running for 5 days. In reality, one can usually get away with 18 hours a day, and stretch the fuel for another couple of days. Buying, transporting, and storing more than 80-100 gallons of gas before a predicted storm gets to be problematic for many of us. After the storm season ends, the fuel inventory can be reduced by using it in your car or truck.

3. A 3,500 watt unit, such as the Power Pro will be quiet enough not to prevent your getting a good night's sleep, or disturb neighbors who may own guns, and will be cranky because they don't have power;-)

4. The Power Pro 3,500 easily runs my room A/C, (7,500 BTU that I bought for $120.00) My recent vintage side-by-side reefer, my desktop computer & monitor, 32" TV, a few box fans, and plenty of lighting around the house. Having fresh food and plenty of ICE really helps the comfort level during an extended outage. I can run my microwave if I shut the A/C and some lighting off first.

5. Modest cost, small space requirements. The Power Pro 3500 is compact and lends itself to being left set up and ready to go without having to move it. I run it for 15 minutes once a week, and added some fuel stabilizer. I installed a U.L. Transfer switch so I can quickly switch over. Transfer switches rated for 5,000 watts can be had on eBay for about $125.00 The price jumps dramatically for larger ones. Since my breaker panel is in my garage, near the garage door, I piped the exhaust through the cement block wall, and can run the unit with the garage door open about 18" with the generator faced so it's internal fan blows in the direction of the open door. (I installed a Carbon Monoxide/smoke detector next to the door leading inside the house for safety.)

The one thing these small generators don't do very well is run fluorescent lighting. The lamps tend to flicker, which I find quite annoying.

I also have 2 ELM3000 units, one of which I use to power my office when the power fails, which it did for 2 hours this past Monday. Having all the 110V power available via extension cords makes this an ideal unit for quick set up, since my landlord won't let me install a transfer switch.

One last thought: If your home does not have gas service, then one should have a Coleman camping stove & lantern for light and cooking should the generator fail.

I hope this information proves useful, and not be considered as being too far off-topic. After all, much of camping and RVing is about being self-sufficient.

Have a great Independence Day!

Cheers!