3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[tomcrosley]

The "L" at the end of the number means it has an additional 12v outlet with cable for charging your 12v batteries.
Tom

[qtla9111]

What is the difference between the ELM3000 and the ELM3000L?

[jorbill2or]

on a small label VERY small print on the side of the cover on the bottom of the recoil pull rope starter. A neighbor who used to work on small eng told me that was typical for that size engine... Moderate use means about that many hrs use.
this thread is way too long for me to remember which engine was which 🙂 Since I rarely use it it will be fime for me!!!

[FrizzleFried]

Where exactly on that engine does it say that? Also, it was established long ago that the Champion motor IS NOT the Juang Dong (sp?) Honda knockoff...perhaps close, but NOT the same.

[jorbill2or]

I purchased a "champion " model a couple weeks ago but upon looking at the Chinese made "Honda" knock off It states in small print on the engine "moderate use durability 125 hrs" That sure doesn't sound long to me maybe for a lawnmower but not something that may run 10hrs a day Other than that it seems to run fine rated at 72db but seems more quiet. I gen'l dont need the A/C and use it for topping battery (with the Trailer built in Charger) Microwave at dinner etc.

[subcamper]

We use those switches in designs at work. The most popular ones are called bi-metal switches and are available in NO or NC type, various mounts, and current capacities. The most popular are probably by Thermodisc (www.thermodisc.com). A bi-metal NO switch could be connected in parallel directly across the low-oil switch.

Steve

[Capt-Ron]

Youth4him,
I knew if I threw my idea out there that someone would take it and run. I had originally thought about using overtemp switches from a clothes dryer, fairly cheap but normally closed so won't work. Also these are auto-reset and I'm not sure if the manual reset would be better.

For those not familiar with the terms normally open (N/O) and normally closed (N/C) it indicates the resting position of the switch when that switch is spring biased. The N/C switch will pass current until it is activated. The N/O is just the opposite so we need this type to ground the ignition circuit of the generator when an overheat condition exists. By connecting one terminal to the engine block and the other terminal to the wire from the Low Oil Shutdown switch we have now added an extra safety device.

Now that we know what type of switch is needed (N/O), we have to address two other criteria, temperature and location. The location will have a direct effect on the required trip temperature. The cylinder head for example would require a switch with a higher setting than one needed for the cooling air temp. Some testing will be required in order to get the correct values since we don't want the generator shutting down needlessly if the selected switch values are too low.

I'll rummage around on the web to see if I can find some usable switches and post information here later.

Capt Ron

[youth4him]

Capt Ron:

I like the temp sensor idea. I've asked my Brother in Law (EE) to see if he can design something simple for me, we'll see what he comes up with, and if it's good, I'll share!

[JPhelps]

My Power Pro 3500 runs my air conditioner and a portable heater off the same circuit at 118 volts. Works fine.

[Capt-Ron]

One of the challenges in designing an effective enclosure is controlling the heat build-up. Even though these generators are cheap having one seize because of a lack of cooling air flow is a major pita.

With this in mind I wonder if a normally open, heat activated switch could be wired in series with the low oil switch to shut down the generator if high heat conditions where reached.

The wiring diagrams show that the low oil switch is a short to ground and any number of safety switches could be included in this circuit if they also shorted to ground.

Therefore, you could set maximum air, cylinder head, oil, or exhaust temperatures with an automatic shutdown if any were exceeded.

Just a thought...

Even though I sold my 2 Power Pros I'm still involved with them as my neighbors install them in the front compartments of their 5vers.
When these are finished I'll try to get pictures to post here.

Capt Ron

[professor95]

I'm thinking I might switch the oil to synthetic as well, I'd bet that would keep it 5-10 degrees cooler. What do you think about that?

That would certainly be an interesting experiment and I personally encourage you to give it a whirl.

But, IMHO, I would be surprised to see a measurable difference in operating temperature by using synthetic oil.

[chadcarnes]

I thought the same thing Professor95. I was running the Frig and the water heater off gas. Didn't think to unplug the converter, but the only breakers I had "hot" was the main and the A/C. If the PowerPro had a switch like the ELIM3000, I think it would work great.

I think to get the full amperage, one needs to wire this genset as per Mr Wizards instructions. Here is a link provided earlier (page 48) from Guy48065 http://www.y4hdesigns.com/images/PP3500schem.jpg

Chad

[youth4him]

Thanks all. I like the meat thermometer idea, would be an easy "at a glance" check to make sure you're not about to melt the block.

I'm thinking I might switch the oil to synthetic as well, I'd bet that would keep it 5-10 degrees cooler. What do you think about that?

[professor95]

Got to try out the PowerPro 3500 this past weekend at Charlotte. Thursday afternoon (we got set up around 2pm) I wired it to my 50 amp service with the 240 NEMA plug. It would start the AC, but would trip the circuit breaker after 10 minutes or so. As the day heated up, it would not keep it running. I went to Northern Tools in Concord, NC and purchased a EU3000is, as my wife and baby was getting hot! It ran it with no problems...

Just as a reminder.... If you are using the PowerPro or a similar generator that splits the wattage between two outlets, you may be able to get the ac to work off of one side if you disconnect (unplug) the converter in your RV and have your refrigerator on propane. The converter and refrigerator can easily suck up 600 or more watts of available power.

I am not suggesting this was the problem in the above story, only reminding other readers of the potential complication. With a 50 amp service (two branch circuit feeds) the issue might not be as great as with a single 30 amp service (single branch circuit feed).

[professor95]

Thanks, Kevin!

Great job on the description. The box itself isn't too shabby either. Guess I know what my next "rainy day" project will be.

As a suggestion.... My local Big Lots had some remote meat themometers recently for about $4. They have a digital readout and a cable going to the sensor about 3 feet long. I used one as a water heater temperature monitor in the RV. The same animal would work well as a monitor for the engine block or the inside of the box you built.