BEWARE!!! Wire Gauges May Not Be What You Think!!!

[MEXICOWANDERER]

More and more I am finding 12 gauge wire that is really 13 gauge, and 14 gauge wire that is actually 15 gauge.

The best way to guard against getting screwed is to purchase only AWG (American Wire Gauge) rated wire from a reputable supplier.

How did I find this out? By "almost" purchasing a roll of "12AWG" wire. I stripped an inch and remarked "That sure looks small". Yeah you would say it was "small". Small enough so it fit easily into a "Blue" 16-14 gauge butt connector. The BOX was marked 12AWG and every half meter the wire was marked "UL" and 12 AWG.

So I got out my 4-terminal resistance meter. Measured the 100 meter long roll. The reading was so much more (higher resistance) than what it was supposed to be, I was shocked.

So I checked the distributor's 10 gauge and 8 gauge. Stupidly under-size.

So, this is a head's up alert. I knew for many years that RV manufacturers say "14 gauge" but it is 14 gauge SAE. 7% smaller than AWG wire.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Yeah Wayne, but I have to asssssssssssssume this RV forum deals exclusively with stranded wire. That and the fact that standard diagonal cutting pliers do NOT sever a conductor in a perfectly round fashion.

But again, it is the resistance of a length of wire that is the focus of my point.
Usa
Want to play a game? Check the price on 12 gauge wire. Then compare it to the price of 10 gauge wire. Wanna give them the OK to start requiring people to adjust what they really want versus published specs? Once that happens, it'll be the end of the USA. Hello Mexico or Nigeria.

[Wayne_Dohnal]

Looking at the specs for blue connectors, the standard hole size seems to be at least .09". With AWG 12 solid wire being about .08", it ought to fit. Stranded would depend on the conductor size and twist rate.
example specs 1
example specs 2

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Unless the wire has AWG printed on it, you might have a chance of stuffing 0000 wire in a red connector. Stranded wire MUST be larger in diameter than solid wire. Conductor-wise.

THE FOLLOWING POINT IS THE POINT OF ISSUE

Circuits are calculated and designed by planning not guesswork. A circuit can range anywhere in size from digital which are wave soldered to power generation circuits that use conductors the size of your forearm.

When you go to the store with a grocery list and the recipe calls for 12 ounces drained weight of peas, you buy a can of peas, go home and find out after draining you have 5 ounces of peas, are you a happy camper? If you pay two hundred dollars to get a load range E tire with a 3,300 lb rating and then find out the tire really has a 2,600 lb rating, are you a happy camper? Women may love using a bathroom scale that reads 118 lbs rather than 140 but I do not get tickled to death being cheated. I don't like paying top dollar and then have to use expensive lab equipment to be sure that my designed exactly correct circuit isn't going to go up in flames.

I tried every butt connector DESIGN I own. Twelve gauge, some insulated blue and some not. I tried to fit NUMBER TWELVE AMERICAN WIRE GAUGE WIRE into these terminals. Not one went in. Strands flayed out. These are mostly Del City terminals. The few PLASTIC garbage terminals I feel came from Harbor Fright were WORSE NOT BETTER. More strand flaying.

Our little Oriental buddy's are into a new trick. Screw SAE or AWG and mark wires in millimeters.

But I am a staunch consumer advocate. No three walnut shells and a pea purchases for me. No .125" plate equivalent-amp-hour batteries that miraculously weigh ten percent lighter. No newfangled "Amp Seconds" battery label ratings. No "Contents May Settle Up To 90% During Shipment" oversize boxes. "No same-price only 9% less product in the same bottle" prestidigitation.

YOU AIN'T GONNA FIT GENUINE TWELVE AWG WIRE INTO A BLUE INSULATED CONNECTOR.

"Although Table 8 in Chapter 9 states that #12 solid and #12 stranded have the same Circular Mill Area, it seems to indicate that the overall diameter of #12 solid is 0.081 inches and #12 stranded is 0.092 inches. Wouldn’t that actually make it just a tad larger than the #12 solid overall?"

take 'em to the library and they eat the books"

[RJsfishin]

I just hate when that happens !
The measurement for 10 ga is .1019 like you said.

I'll go to Napa and have them give me 2" pc of their red/blk 10 ga twin lead, just to see if we can really put some more bad mouth on the chinaman.
But no matter what it measures, I can assure me that it will be at least double price of what I paid. I know I tried to buy some in Quartzsite AZ this year, and it was $1.25 per foot.

[Tom_M1]

The standard for #10 wire is 0.1019" and #11 is 0.0907". Your wire measures 0.097". A difference of less than 5 thousandth (.0049) of an inch. Not enough to worry about. You may be squeezing the wire that much with your caliper.

[RJsfishin]

Thinking of this $36 100 ft roll of 10 ga twin lead I purchased on ebay a couple months ago, (made in china) I thought would be a good suspect for this thread in question. Chart says dia should be .1009
Did they cheat here ? Or is it just difficult to get a true measurement on stranded wire ? You be the judge.

[Tom_M1]

SaltiDawg wrote:

The wire coming to my home from the street - and I dare say to your home from your street - is aluminum.

Aluminum wiring in and of itself is not a problem... it is the "interface" between aluminum and a dissimilar metal such as copper.

YMMV

Aluminum is fine if that is what you want. I recently bought some #8 copper wire on eBay with the intent of upgrading some #10 copper wire. The wire turned out to be copper clad aluminum. Aluminum has a lower current capacity than copper so I would have gained nothing by using it.

[RJsfishin]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
You Ain't Gonna Use "Blue" Connectors With 12 AWG Wire.

W/ nothing better to do, I stroll out to the shop, open drawers full of pcs of wiring. stripped around 30 pcs of 12 ga, strand and solid single strand and romex, some of it recently purchased, and not one pc measured less than .079.
Now, every chart I've seen calls 12ga out at .080

Next, I opened my connector box w/ at least 3 kinds (types) of blue connectors, some from HF, many from Napa Auto, and guess what,....every type of blue connector easily slipped over ALL the 12 ga wire.

[SaltiDawg]

rkentzel wrote:
You think the wire is cheap of the shelf or on ebay but you ought to check what goes into appliances comming from off shore. That will really make you cringe. cheap aluminum wire bad crimps on and on. Hey but there pretty.

The wire coming to my home from the street - and I dare say to your home from your street - is aluminum.

Aluminum wiring in and of itself is not a problem... it is the "interface" between aluminum and a dissimilar metal such as copper.

YMMV

[john_bet]

Bob Landry wrote:
Setting aside the obvious size differences between SAE and AWG wire, I seriously doubt there is a sizing issue with the wire sold at the big box stores. Commercial contractors buy their materials there and their work has to be inspected and pass code. There would also be too many liability factors involved if their products were anything except what they are represented to be. Granted, there are areas in the market place that warrant paranoia but I don't think this is going to be one of them.

Bob, does your inspection authority physically check the gage of the wire or just look at the jacket to see if it is appropriate for the circuit it is used on? Kinda hard to do after device is installed. Mine does not.

[rkentzel]

You think the wire is cheap of the shelf or on ebay but you ought to check what goes into appliances comming from off shore. That will really make you cringe. cheap aluminum wire bad crimps on and on. Hey but there pretty.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

I believe AWG is more closely supervised FROM A REAL RETAILER, and not when the wire is from an online flake outfit. People like Genuinedealz, Del City, All Battery Sales, and many others offer good products. But el flako sources like found on EBAY need to be treated with caution and prudence.

I just CHOPPED OUT the 17 gauge cord on my milkhouse 1,650 watt heater and replaced it with 14 gauge. Ya wanna know what the wire to plug contact looked like when I used a pair of diagonal cutting pliers? The copper stranding was purple and brown the black PVC zipcord was partially melted. My clue was the changed color prongs on the plug.

Out government now seems to be more interested in collecting taxes and purchasing drones than in protecting the consumer. US CUSTOMS? Gimme a break! Their job is to stop marque designer counterfeits from leaving the dock, and Chinese toys tainted with cyanide and polonium paint pigment from getting to the crib.

[Bob_Landry]

Setting aside the obvious size differences between SAE and AWG wire, I seriously doubt there is a sizing issue with the wire sold at the big box stores. Commercial contractors buy their materials there and their work has to be inspected and pass code. There would also be too many liability factors involved if their products were anything except what they are represented to be. Granted, there are areas in the market place that warrant paranoia but I don't think this is going to be one of them.

[RJsfishin]

Quote:
I have been dismayed at what passes for 12ga house wiring at big box stores in recent years. I've been using all heavier wire (pay more $).
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Yes, I'll just bet you're wiring all the houses w/ 10 ga.
Has the cheap 12 ga been smoking ?? Who we kiddin, we're all after price, so quitour*****in !