Boiling point of anti freeze

[joshuajim]

I flushed and refilled my trucks radiator today. I noted on the bottle that a 50/50 solution of antifreeze/water will result in a 256 degree boiling point. This piqued my curiosity so I did a little research. In reality 50/50 antifreeze only raises the boiling point by 8 degrees. The 15# cap on the radiator is what gets you to 256.

[MDKMDK]

SidecarFlip wrote:

MDKMDK wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:
Pretty complex stuff here, all for a 6 buck part that is really a consumable though most people don't realize that.

Like oil pan plugs.

Kind of. With oil pan plugs you can have a plug or a Fumoto valve. I prefer the plug. Radiator (expansion tank) cap is just that.

You do have to wonder how many people out there have failing caps and basically non pressurized coolant systems. I bet a bunch.

I got wise on pressure caps from the Powerstroke Forum. Lots of coolant and liner related issues happen from a 6 buck part failure.

I would choose $6 over becoming a coolant pressure cap casualty.

[SidecarFlip]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Nalcool 2000 prevents high percentage ethylene glycol from getting gummy. The oversize radiator is shiny brass inside. One treatment, 1998 and the coolant will last damned near forever. I did a boil test on the thermostat and the engine iron looked like brand new (2016).

I remember one of the last things I did when packing the containers was to fill carboys with 48 cent per gallon Wal-Mart distilled water. SanMar could care less what the 35' containers weighed. Every car trip means ten gallons of distilled water. Mexican Customs opened one gallon and poured some into a palm and smelled it. I told them it was for my BiPAP machine. They abandoned curiosity in under 3 seconds.

Distilled water costs like sin down here. They call it liquido Para Baterias. Often costs a dollar and a half per pint.

I found the old DOW blue antifreeze the least offensive as far as garbage additives. With Nalcool 2000 it is quite a coolant.

A non issue with me. I have no desire to cross the border. Everything I want or need is stateside.

Far as coagulating coolant, My tractors all get changed bi yearly. Only time I've heard of that is when someone mixes red extended life with green gycol.

None of mine have alloy heat exchangers. All are aluminum with plastic top and bottom tanks.

[SidecarFlip]

MDKMDK wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:
Pretty complex stuff here, all for a 6 buck part that is really a consumable though most people don't realize that.

Like oil pan plugs.

Kind of. With oil pan plugs you can have a plug or a Fumoto valve. I prefer the plug. Radiator (expansion tank) cap is just that.

You do have to wonder how many people out there have failing caps and basically non pressurized coolant systems. I bet a bunch.

I got wise on pressure caps from the Powerstroke Forum. Lots of coolant and liner related issues happen from a 6 buck part failure.

[MDKMDK]

SidecarFlip wrote:
Pretty complex stuff here, all for a 6 buck part that is really a consumable though most people don't realize that.

Like oil pan plugs.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Nalcool 2000 prevents high percentage ethylene glycol from getting gummy. The oversize radiator is shiny brass inside. One treatment, 1998 and the coolant will last damned near forever. I did a boil test on the thermostat and the engine iron looked like brand new (2016).

I remember one of the last things I did when packing the containers was to fill carboys with 48 cent per gallon Wal-Mart distilled water. SanMar could care less what the 35' containers weighed. Every car trip means ten gallons of distilled water. Mexican Customs opened one gallon and poured some into a palm and smelled it. I told them it was for my BiPAP machine. They abandoned curiosity in under 3 seconds.

Distilled water costs like sin down here. They call it liquido Para Baterias. Often costs a dollar and a half per pint.

I found the old DOW blue antifreeze the least offensive as far as garbage additives. With Nalcool 2000 it is quite a coolant.

[SidecarFlip]

Pretty complex stuff here, all for a 6 buck part that is really a consumable though most people don't realize that.

[SidecarFlip]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
And there is nothing better than an original equipment brand radiator cap (and thermostat). My Kubota has 80% DOW anti-freeze plus Nalco cooling system treatment. The remaining 20% is distilled water hauled down from the states.

Unless you have an ancient Kubota no need for any treatment. Their engines are all dry linered. I have 3, a M9, a 105X and a 135M

Kubota uses Stant or Nippon Denso caps as do most of the tractor and automobile builders.

No distilled water in Mexico, I'm amazed. I use Ph neutralized rain water myself.

[mike-s]

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:
Cooling system is a closed system under pressure....lets use your 15 psi.
At sea level or 8000 ft it is still 15 psi in the cooling system. Should be the same boiling point high or low altitude.

Nope. It's 15 psi above atmospheric pressure. The cap regulates relative pressure, not absolute pressure. As atmospheric pressure goes down, so too does the pressure inside the radiator.

Sea level atmospheric pressure is roughly 15 psi. With the cap, radiator pressure can go to ~30 psi (absolute). When you go to 10,000 feet, atmospheric pressure is ~10 psi, and radiator pressure is ~25 psi (absolute). In both cases, the radiator would have 15 psi (gage), which is the difference between atmospheric and radiator pressures.

The boiling point is relative to the absolute pressure.

[MDKMDK]

joshuajim wrote:

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:
Cooling system is a closed system under pressure....lets use your 15 psi.
At sea level or 8000 ft it is still 15 psi in the cooling system. Should be the same boiling point high or low altitude.

Not quite. The cap raises the pressure above ambient sea level air pressure (14.7 psi). At 8000 MSL the ambient pressure is about 4# lower than sea level.

That’s why water boils at 198 degrees at 8000 msl.

Isn't that lower boiling point at altitude measured using water in an open vessel, then being heated to the boil?

[joshuajim]

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:
Cooling system is a closed system under pressure....lets use your 15 psi.
At sea level or 8000 ft it is still 15 psi in the cooling system. Should be the same boiling point high or low altitude.

Not quite. The cap raises the pressure above ambient sea level air pressure (14.7 psi). At 8000 MSL the ambient pressure is about 4# lower than sea level.

That’s why water boils at 198 degrees at 8000 msl.

[marcsbigfoot20b]

Cooling system is a closed system under pressure....lets use your 15 psi.
At sea level or 8000 ft it is still 15 psi in the cooling system. Should be the same boiling point high or low altitude.

[mike-s]

joshuajim wrote:
In reality 50/50 antifreeze only raises the boiling point by 8 degrees.

That's why it's called "antifreeze," and not "antiboil."

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:

RCMAN46 wrote:
At 10,000 feet that temperature drops to about 237 degrees f.

Do tell????

Higher altitude, lower pressure, lower boiling point. The cap adds 15 psi to the ambient pressure.

rhagfo wrote:
Better than 50/50 is 60/40 antifreeze/H2O, higher boiling point and lower freezing point.

"Better," how? If the engine will sit in arctic temperatures, sure, you get more freeze protection. But ethylene glycol has less than 60% of the specific heat capacity of water, so the more you use the less efficient the cooling system becomes. 50/50 is the accepted compromise between cooling efficiency, freeze protection, and corrosion protection for most climates.

[RJsfishin]

Another factor not mentioned is that plain water dissipates heat better than any other liquid. So adding more coolant to water, raises the operating temperature, and under some conditions may not be a good idea.

[wa8yxm]

You know...they teach all this stuff in School..

As pressure increases so does boiling point. (It also affects freezing point but on a motor vehicle when there is pressure. Freezing is NOT an issue)

As Impurities increase (Anti-freeze is an "impurity" from the water standpoint) Generally Freezing point goes down and boiling point up.

If you ever buy Sugar Free Ice cream it tends to be harder then regular sugar based because.... Sugar acts like anti-freeze.