Cheap Refrigerator question

[tewitt1949]

I'm thinking about buying a cheap refrigerator to replace the junk one in our travel trailer which has been a problem for years.

Anyways, Do the engineers who make refrigerators design them to last a certain number of hours of use? Like vacuum cleaners and many other things now days, they will fail after a certain number of hours used? I should mention I'm talking about house refrigerators.

My question, In theory... if cheap refrigerators are designed to last just saying 3-4 years of continuous use, and since we only use our travel trailer maybe 3-4 weeks a year, will a cheap refrigerator last more than the 3-4 years since it will be shut off 90% of the time? I realize moisture and humidity and corrosion could be a factor also.

At my age I don't need one to last 20 years, if it will last 10 years I'd be happy. So why spend $1000 on one if a $350 refrigerator will last just as long being used very little.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

IMHO it is not the process that invites problems or criticism, it is the manufacture.

Today's gas refrigeration cooling units are garbage compared to Servel cooling units of the 1030's - 1960's

The cooling units were made in Sweden from Swedish alloy steel and the steel was three times as thick. Wrestling a full size Servel cooling unit meant risking tearing a muscle. I was dismayed handling 22 Servel refrigerators given to me by a resort that switched from gas to self generated low head hydro power. Six the of units did not function and their style and condition was beyond saving.

When I purchased an 8 CF Norcold I was aghast at the tinny construction of the cooling unit. Thunk-thunk-thunk versus tink-tink-tink.

When the Norcold rep spent over a week with "Sal" then the chief technician with KOOL FUN in Irwindale California in early 1990 trying to get the refrigerator temp below 40F in July they exchanged cooling units two more times. Baffles were supplied by me. Crimped 20 gauge galvanized sheet metal.

I picked the unit up and a month later the cooling unit malfunctioned the same as it always did, the entire unit defrosted to 70F on high flame and only shutting it down for two days and restarting it restored cooling which in blistering Yucatan summer temperatures could not get the refrigerator into the thirties nor it's freezer lower than 17F.

At the time I had a 1.5 cf Domestic F540 chest freezer that on gas cooled into the single digits. Seven hundred dollars worth. Remember this was 28 years ago.

Enough was enough. The refrigerator was tossed out the back door, and thousands of dollars worth of Vest Frost custom units were installed. Their 24vdc motors are brushless and ball bearings are oil bath immersed. I forgot how much they weigh but it is several hundred pounds, way too heavy for a standard cardboard crate RV. BOTH keep food max cold on less than 100 amp hours of 24 volt battery. Parked within feet of where the Norcold malfunctioned.

To me there just isn't a magic solution. Lots and lots of money, weight, modifications, and fundamental re engineering of the electrical supply is a heavy penalty to pay. But my food stays cold and no more 200 mile shopping trips.

[azrving]

DrewE wrote:

azrving wrote:

If I was staying with gas I would modify it differently then they do with the ARP type devices. The whole thing is flawed and insane from the very beginning. Resi or gas both have their pros and cons but right now I'm for the one that doesnt have as bad of a history of burning everything down. My old gas fridge was in excellent condition and had very little rust and was always level but it would be bad to return to a burned out rig or the worst part would be knowing that I left my dogs in a known fire trap. We all know what a cheesy industry RV's are but how did anyone ever let this whole thing continue on for so long? I dont think it's very hard to fix but it does require a little more money. It seems like it would be talked about on here.

Gas fridges have somewhat of an underserved reputation for fire danger. More RV fires stem from engine fires and, if memory serves, electrical fires than from fridges, and at least a fair chunk (not necessarily the majority) of fridge fires are due to things not specifically fridge related, like leaking connections to the propane system that could just as easily be found on any propane appliance.

Ammonia is not particularly inflammable; it has a fairly narrow band of concentration where it will burn. That, of course, is not very much consolation for anyone who has suffered due to a fridge fire; but it's equally wrong to think of an absorption fridge as though it were a bomb waiting to go off at the slightest provocation.

Far more beneficial, in my opinion, would be to use more fire-safe materials and construction methods in RVs so that they wouldn't generally go from having a small fire to being a raging inferno in half a minute or so.

Yes, they are far from a bomb waiting to go off. The key issue is that they do have the ability like any other gas appliance to catch fire. The flaw that no one seems to address with an RV and is always addressed with a home is the installation. The compartment is used as a chimney yet it's made of wood. All it needs is to be built with a sheet metal liner and cap. When a propane fridge often catches fire from the release of gasses yet the total amount of gas is pretty small. It doesn’t contain enough to keep a flame blowing out against the wood for a long time; it's just that the wood chase catches fire quickly. It's like they did half the job. If the chase was lined with sheet metal it would probably be extremely difficult to catch it on fire. Lining with sheet metal requires some labor but would be cheaper that some of the protective devices which are not total protections from fire. A wood chase for a gas burning appliance is just crazy. What gas or wood burning home appliance is allowed to use a wood chase as a chimney?

[DrewE]

azrving wrote:

If I was staying with gas I would modify it differently then they do with the ARP type devices. The whole thing is flawed and insane from the very beginning. Resi or gas both have their pros and cons but right now I'm for the one that doesnt have as bad of a history of burning everything down. My old gas fridge was in excellent condition and had very little rust and was always level but it would be bad to return to a burned out rig or the worst part would be knowing that I left my dogs in a known fire trap. We all know what a cheesy industry RV's are but how did anyone ever let this whole thing continue on for so long? I dont think it's very hard to fix but it does require a little more money. It seems like it would be talked about on here.

Gas fridges have somewhat of an underserved reputation for fire danger. More RV fires stem from engine fires and, if memory serves, electrical fires than from fridges, and at least a fair chunk (not necessarily the majority) of fridge fires are due to things not specifically fridge related, like leaking connections to the propane system that could just as easily be found on any propane appliance.

Ammonia is not particularly inflammable; it has a fairly narrow band of concentration where it will burn. That, of course, is not very much consolation for anyone who has suffered due to a fridge fire; but it's equally wrong to think of an absorption fridge as though it were a bomb waiting to go off at the slightest provocation.

Far more beneficial, in my opinion, would be to use more fire-safe materials and construction methods in RVs so that they wouldn't generally go from having a small fire to being a raging inferno in half a minute or so.

[azrving]

Bob E. wrote:

Ralph Cramden wrote:

jerryjay11 wrote:
Been in the business of servicing or repairing home refrigerators since retiring from the USAF in 97.

Just keep in mind that household refrigerators were not designed to withstand the bouncing of a TT and it's life expectancy can be shorter.

That's a great point, but will be ignored here and at every other RV forum in existence.

My parent's RV fridge died at 10 years old this year. They were quoted something like $1400 for a new one, not including installation. Since they camp with hookups 99% of the time, they went to Home Depot and bought a small residential fridge that fit the opening for a little over $300. They could replace that fridge 3 more times and still be almost $200 ahead. So basically, if the fridge lasts 2.5 years, it is worth it. Plus it keeps things colder and has more space in it...so long as you have hookups.

I wouldnt be surprised at all if the guy in the vidoe isnt correct with his statement of 10 to 15% resi failure rate. Im sure they do all sorts of various testing but shaking the heck out of it probably isnt high on the list. Think about some of the pot holes or rough transitions at overpasses that we hit. It's smacking and jarring it which would seem like it could break connections or slosh the compressor oil. I dont know exactly how the oil is affected by jarring and shaking but I do know that they built it with the intention of having it sit there and never move.

My two year old 10.7 cf resi just had a hicup when it froze some food. Nothng had changed recentley and I had it shut off for a month this summer but it was now back in use for the last two months. The shore voltage is good and nothing has changed with it's clearances or ability to cool. While we waited for it to stabilize after turning it down a touch I looked at prices of new units just in case I had to replace it.

The prices seem to range from about $340 to $600. I originaly paid $485 including delivery but I got $400 for my old frig. I also added $335 worth of 480 watt panels, another controller $150, two more GC2 $200, wire alumium breaker etc $100 for a total of $785 and installed myself. Except for the batteries the rest of the solar parts have a high probability of the costs being averaged out over a very long time. Just assuming that that two batteries and the fridge had to be replaced every 3 years it would be about $450 for the fridge and $180 for the batteries $630 divided by three years $210 per year. If my gas fridge had been replaced every 10 years it would be about $180 to $200 per year. If sitting on shore power it would be crazy to buy a gas fridge but if boondocking all the time it doesnt mean you have to have a gas fridge. It just means that you have to power it. If you dont want to go through all the work of powering it or cant take on on more weight and you are willing to accept less sq feet of interior space and then you have to stay with gas.

If I was staying with gas I would modify it differently then they do with the ARP type devices. The whole thing is flawed and insane from the very beginning. Resi or gas both have their pros and cons but right now I'm for the one that doesnt have as bad of a history of burning everything down. My old gas fridge was in excellent condition and had very little rust and was always level but it would be bad to return to a burned out rig or the worst part would be knowing that I left my dogs in a known fire trap. We all know what a cheesy industry RV's are but how did anyone ever let this whole thing continue on for so long? I dont think it's very hard to fix but it does require a little more money. It seems like it would be talked about on here.

[fx2tom]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Foreign Jobs

I have had excellent luck with SAMSUNG brand. I own a Viking and two VestFrost refrigerators (with Danforth compressors) they are not low end models.

I've yet to meet a Samsung refrigerator owner down here that was not pleased with flawless service life.

SEARS sold Cold Spot refrigerators 60 years ago that seemed to be unbreakable and wear-out proof. They bought a chest freezer in 1948 that was going strong in 1999 with a different owner. Amazing.

Our Samsung fridge at home has been nothing but problems. Bought it 6 years ago when our old Kenmore died. Have regretted it since. When we subsequently replaced (updated the kitchen) our oven and dishwasher we went GE and have not had any issues. Would definitely not buy Samsung again.

[ljhl]

I’ve thought about putting a residential refrigerator in our rig many times. I have a Norcold 1200 that has the Amish cooling unit and it works great. If it fails, I’ll have to go with a residential, but I have been waiting for 6 years and it still works just fine.

[Almot]

Bob E. wrote:

Maybe it wasn't adjusted properly or something, and maybe that's why it failed after just 10 years (a tube carrying the ammonia cracked). But it was never really cold inside, especially when hot outside, even when new. We were new to RV's so we just figured they didn't work as good as the fridge in your house. We even kept cans of pop, water, and beer in a separate cooler on ice just so it was colder and we weren't opening the fridge as often. By the end of the week, I was always worried about the milk going sour.

Same experience with my 6-something cf Norcold. Barely 40 in fridge, 4 in freezer, temps at the door were much warmer. In hot weather it starts cycling immediately after you open the door, probably because it's so shallow inside from front to back. It means that half the time (in daytime) the temps inside are hotter than 4 and 40.

6 cf might be enough for 2 people for a week if they don't cook much. I don't use ready or semi-ready meals from stores, but cook for 2-3 days at once, fill big salad bowl for 2 days, and can barely fit a couple of mid-size pots and assorted separate items, and this is for one person. Freezer is big enough, bigger than I need.

Reliability issues of LP fridges are a bit exaggerated. I wouldn't be surprised if mine would work for more than 10 years, though I'm not moving the rig around often. The need to be on hookups or daily generator run is something to keep in mind, with residential fridges. To me, this would be more than just a "slight inconvenience". It would restrict my freedom of movement and the right to "quiet enjoyment" of my wheeled house 🙂 - as they call it in real estate and tenancy law. Lifestyles differ, though.

[azrving]

I bumped into this Video which seems to explain it well. Risk/reward.

[tewitt1949]

I checked and the 50+ year old fridge I brought home from Viet Nam that is still working is a Sanyo.

[Bob_E_]

pnichols wrote:

Bob E. wrote:
Plus it keeps things colder and has more space in it...so long as you have hookups.

We haven't experienced those downsides with the 6.3 cu. ft. Norcold propane refrigerator in our RV.

6.3 cu. ft. is 6.3 cu. ft., and it happens that the 6.3 cu. ft. inside of our Norcold is plenty enough room for the two of us for at least a week or more . It has 5 coldness settings and we use it most of the time on setting 3. Setting 5 freezes stuff in the refrigerator section and keeps the freezer section less than zero (which is too cold to for on-tap-usable ice cream). A 10 degree freezer is perfect for ice cream and that is what setting 3 gets us in most conditions. We sometimes use Setting 4 when it's really hot outside.

I'm really scratching my head regarding all the complaints in the forums about poor RV propane refrigerator performance. Either they're not building the propane refrigerators like they used to (our RV is a 2005) ... or RV manufacturers don't know how to, or don't care to, install them properly anymore. :h

I believe the original RV fridge was 8CF. The residential fridge they put in is a 10CF unit and it fit right in the same opening. It is a bit deeper though. The only thing dad did was shave the wood trim at the top so the hinges would pass through the opening.

Maybe it wasn't adjusted properly or something, and maybe that's why it failed after just 10 years (a tube carrying the ammonia cracked). But it was never really cold inside, especially when hot outside, even when new. We were new to RV's so we just figured they didn't work as good as the fridge in your house. We even kept cans of pop, water, and beer in a separate cooler on ice just so it was colder and we weren't opening the fridge as often. By the end of the week, I was always worried about the milk going sour. And forget keeping ice cream in the freezer. Frozen meats would stay frozen, but ice cream would be very soft if not melted.

[pnichols]

2oldman wrote:
I had a new Dometic installed in 2013 and it's been flawless. Doesn't even balk when it's 105°

That supports what I've suspected all along: Certain RV builders don't install them correctly anymore.

Buyer Beware is the name of the game .... but good grief .... buyers have to be rocket scientists these days to be aware enough to stay out of quality-trouble regarding the complex stuff they buy.

[2oldman]

pnichols wrote:
I'm really scratching my head regarding all the complaints in the forums about poor RV propane refrigerator performance. Either they're not building the propane refrigerators like they used to (our RV is a 2005) ... or RV manufacturers don't know how to, or don't care to, install them properly anymore. :h

I had a new Dometic installed in 2013 and it's been flawless. Doesn't even balk when it's 105°

[pnichols]

Bob E. wrote:
Plus it keeps things colder and has more space in it...so long as you have hookups.

We haven't experienced those downsides with the 6.3 cu. ft. Norcold propane refrigerator in our RV.

6.3 cu. ft. is 6.3 cu. ft., and it happens that the 6.3 cu. ft. inside of our Norcold is plenty enough room for the two of us for at least a week or more . It has 5 coldness settings and we use it most of the time on setting 3. Setting 5 freezes stuff in the refrigerator section and keeps the freezer section less than zero (which is too cold to provide on-tap-usable ice cream). A 10 degree freezer is perfect for ice cream and that is what setting 3 gets us in most conditions. We sometimes use Setting 4 when it's really hot outside.

I'm really scratching my head regarding all the complaints in the forums about poor RV propane refrigerator performance. Either they're not building the propane refrigerators like they used to (our RV is a 2005) ... or RV manufacturers don't know how to, or don't care to, install them properly anymore. :h

[2oldman]

Bob E. wrote:
.. Plus it keeps things colder and has more space in it...so long as you have hookups.

Just a slight inconvenience.