HELP AC Outlets blowing devices!

[SDrummer]

Hello all,

I am currently living in a River Canyon 34RLQS0 5th Wheel that is hooked up to electrical power. I am having a odd issue with the electrical in the trailer. Some of the GFI outlets are blowing electrical devices when they are plugged in. Yesterday we plugged a toaster into the kitchen and it started smoking without even turning the device on. I also plugged my laptop AC adapter into the GFI outlet in the bedroom and it worked for about 2 minutes before blowing. The AC adapter does not give out any voltage and I verified this at my work.

The trailer has has issues in the past as it has blown the bedroom TV and kitchen Microwave as well.

I have measured the voltage on the plugs and they range from 110v-117v.

Today I tested all of the outlets with a GFI tester and they all read good indicating there are no line, neutral, or ground wires crossed.

The bizzare thing is that the plugs seem like they decide which devices they want to fry. I am currently running my heater and charging my phone on the same plug that blew my laptop AC adapter yesterday.

Any help is appreciated as I worried about plugging anything into the walls fearing it will blow the device.

Thanks

[JimM68]

MEOW!!!!


Wow, I think I need to go back and read the rest of this?

BUT FYI, I was once a Fire Control Technician (missiles) in the United States Navy, and then was a computer repair technician in industry.

We had great disdane for "electricians", most of which was totally unfounded.

[john_bet]

RV Tech 101 wrote:
Your best suggestion is get a hold of a qualified RV tech. Not an electrician. Most electricians are clueless beyond wireing a light switch and can cause more damage than you already have. I agree it sounds like a 50 amp coach with an open nuetral. Real simple fix. Check all wire connections in the distribution panel and transfer switch (if applicable). Next check power source. If you know nothing if 50 amp or 30 amp plugs then this is where you need the tech. If it is an open nuetral be prepared to replace your converter and maybe some other more expensive items because your coach just got hit with 220.... oops!
Hope this helps
David
Harrison RV

Sir, I hate to tell you, but not all qualified RV tech are really qualified just like some electricians are not. I took my trailer to an RV dealership with an electrical issue and wrote in plain language what the was. I got a call from the tech that the problem was my tv's and microwave. I went to the dealership and had a heart to heart with the tech and service writer. Come to find out the tech did not read the written issue properly thus he did not properly trouble shoot it. He call me the next day eating crow in a big way and said the problem was fixed. All info needs to be found out about what the issue is before it can be proper troubleshoot and fixed in a timely and permanent manner. JME.

[beemerphile1]

RV Tech 101 wrote:
Your best suggestion is get a hold of a qualified RV tech. Not an electrician. Most electricians are clueless beyond wireing a light switch....

I find your comment to be wrong, inflammatory, and offensive. I work with union electricians regularly. In fact I put my life in their hands.

I believe that commercial electricians currently serve five years as an apprentice and are required to obtain a specified number of hours of continuing education training each year.

I do not know what is entailed in being an "RV tech" but I have seen some that appeared to just be out of high school and still wet behind the ears. I very much doubt the requirements are comparable for an "RV tech" and a licensed electrician.

[LScamper]

An open neutral between service panel bus bar and utility transformer would smoke things in the house as well as the RV. Problem should be between service panel bus bar and RV distribution panel.

Start by loading as mex said but start at the house connector before plugging in the RV. Then work to the RV.

[CA_Traveler]

Loading is good but not with expensive RV appliances. Light bulbs are good and cheap if they blow.

Ceramic heaters offer a much higher load possibility. I'd sacrafice a ceramic heater if required, better that than a $3K AC. As a resistive device and small fan if might survive high voltage for short duration.

Electronics like TVs, MW, etc may actually be using power when turned off and high voltage will probably let the smoke out.

Some appliances cannot be turned off like a charger and my post CB panel inverter/charger. CB's should turn them off.

As posted a careful visual inspection of all connections should be high on the priority. This should include the ATS, power protector, pass through inverter (pre CB panel), etc if so equipped.

[CA_Traveler]

There are various surge protectors and power protectors available for RV's. The most popular one seems to be the portable type that plugs into the pedestal. Hence no installation but subject to not being installed. The hardwired version has to be installed in the rig but is always available.

A pure surge protector protects against transient voltage as in very short duration voltage spikes. I believe that this type of device has limited value for a RV.

The full power protection devices are often called surge protectors but they are much more. They include pure surge protection, miswired or faulty plug wiring, high/low voltage protection and frequency protection.

The best full power protector is the Progressive Industries units. The HW50C model includes a remote which displays voltage/amps for each hot leg, frequency and displays an error code for any faults. It has better specs than the Surge Guard unit and has field replaceable parts.

Mine has detected 3 cases of reversed polarity on a 30A plug and numerous cases of low voltage.

Plus one night on a 30A plug it shut down the rig with 160V. The problem was a bad neutral in the 240/120V CG distribution system and I ran to the pedestal to pull the plug.

Many on these boards post 20 years with no power problems and no need for protection. I also went 20 years with no protection but with many new rigs and always on AC appliances it should be considered before the smoke gets let out.

My HW50C is in a second rig and was moved without cutting any of the original wires so quite easy to move again.

[SaltiDawg]

CA TRaveler,

Tnx. Do you, however, advocate "Now go inside and load the hell out of the 30-amp 120 volt service." with a known electrical "issue?" Also, the suggestion include the admonition to have a person stationed at the shore power breaker in case of problems.

This is the point I was addressing and I see that others, presumably with RV experience, take issue with it also.

In any event, thanks for the learnin'.

[CA_Traveler]

Power adapters per Mex's post are just power plugs and wire, no protection at all. For example to plug a 50A rig into a 30A pedestal the adapter would connect the 30A male plug to the 50A female plug as: neutral to neutral, ground to ground and 30A hot to both 50A hots. This provides 120V to both 50A hots but limited to 30A total instead of 100A. Very few rigs have 240V appliances so lack of 240V is a non issue.

I carry adapters for all situations: 20 to 30 to 50 and 50 to 30 to 20. With my 50A rig I use the 20 to 30 to 50 as required.

I also often check the pedestal with the 50 to 30 to 20 and a 3 light household tester. This is an excellent test for 20 and 30 pedestal plug wiring issues. It's a good test for 50A since it will verify the ground, neutral and one hot. It is not a load test but I could also plug in say a ceramic heater.

[SaltiDawg]

CA Traveler wrote:
Well your zero RV experience shows and you don't understand the suggestion. But hang in there and you'll learn what a power adapter does. ...

Thanks. I always look forward to learning and adding to my electrical knowledge gained during my many years of electrical power generation and electrical distribution control and testing.

[wa8yxm]

If turning on the AC, or plugging a major load (hair dryer) into an outlet on the OTHER leg, increases the voltage, the NEUTRAL is not doing it's job.

Of course we have been saying that all along.

NOW: Question, when you took that 118 volt measurement with the A/C running... Was it blower, blower+ Compressor or did you watch as the compressor kicked in.

THAT is the point where I'd expect a poor neutral to show up.. It is where I saw it in my house as well.. RUNNING the voltages were near normal both legs, but when the A/C kicked in.. MAJOR swings in voltage, up on one leg, down on the other.

Your symptoms sound identical.

[westend]

SWDrummer wrote:
So I went ahead and unplugged everything from the outlets and turned off all the lights. I measured the voltage with nothing on and it was 117V.

I then turned on the AC and measured the voltage again at the same outlet and it increased to 118.5V.

This right here is a symptom of an unbalanced circuit. If all your wiring is sound, the voltage would have gone down, not up.

You have an open or resistive neutral as everyone has diagnosed. It will keep blowing devices if not repaired. It can also be a safety issue as in bad things can happen.

One thing I don't understand is that you said you're living in this 5th wheel but you have it parked at your home? If, by any chance, you're parked at someone else's home, I'd forget about checking at the trailer's load center and start at the load center of the house. You will have no clue as to how the receptacle and wiring in the house has been installed. That could be the cause of your troubles and is a good place to start. I really don't think you have the knowledge and abilities to do a good job with this. You had better seek some help.

[wnjj]

SDrummer wrote:
Also am i checking voltages on the two outlets on the same GFI plug or on different GFI plugs on different sides of the trailer?

Thanks for all the help

Your 50 amp plug actually has 240V across two pins (L1 and L2). Since this is AC they are out of phase with each other and each side is 120V to the neutral. Some things in your trailer are wired to L1/neutral and other things are wired to L2/neutral. When the neutral is open or resistive, things are ok so long as there is a nearly equal load on the L1 side and L2 side. The loads just work in series on 240V, each using 120V. When a heavy (i.e. low resistance) load is applied to one side, it will "drop" less voltage across it and the other side will see a proportionally increased voltage.

To figure out if two receptacles are on different phase, plug an extension cord in to one so you can have it near the other. Put a lead of your volt meter into the hot (smaller) pin of the outlet and the other into the hot pin of the extension cord.. If you see 240V, they are on different phases. If you see 0V, they are on the same phase. If they are on different phases and one is reading low (hot to neutral) while the other is reading high, especially if something is loading one of them, you have a bad neutral. The bad neutral could be anywhere between the panel in your trailer all the way back to the house panel or beyond. In other words the place your plugged into may have the issue.

[wnjj]

[SCVJeff]

You have to start somewhere to nail down what this is and where it's coming from before someone gets killed. And it's way better that these load tests be done knowing that is what you are doing than causing it to arbitrarily happen when you turn on the microwave. And thats the safety factor you mention.

I still suggest you get an electrician in there.

[CA_Traveler]

Well your zero RV experience shows and you don't understand the suggestion. But hang in there and you'll learn what a power adapter does.

But your are correct in that safety is very important and we're dealing with AC power which can be shocking.