NEC 2020 & Receptacles
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Sep-10-2019 07:43 AM
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Sep-10-2019 06:06 PM
vermilye wrote:
For those considering installing a 30 or 50 amp receptacle at home for their RV's, you might check out the changes the 2020 NEC has instituted. Looks like GFCI's will be required on all outdoor receptacles. NEC Increased GFCI Protection
Nope, according to Mike Sokol it has been put on hold for now and will be reconsidered at next cycle of code review.
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Sep-10-2019 11:59 AM
RV stores are going to start selling "No A/C power" alarms !
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Sep-10-2019 11:40 AM
sayoung wrote:Pretty much a non-existent problem. An internet search found one fatality 5 years ago. There was not enough information to determine whether the RV or the pedestal was faulty. I don't believe changes in code are retroactive, so it is much ado about nothing in my opinion. If it was ever mandated, no exceptions, for profitable, up to date, parks not really a life changing issue. For all the others just hanging on????
I did a little more reading on this and it may be the NEC gets revised to include rv pedastels before it's adopted. Is this a problem that needs a code revision or is it a fix for a non existing problem
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Sep-10-2019 10:21 AM
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Sep-10-2019 10:20 AM
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Sep-10-2019 10:13 AM
This is why I never connect before measuring voltage
L1 to L2 to earth ground
L1 and L2 to neutral
Neutral to earth ground.
Newbie US NEC code engineers should have a pass=fail exam that takes place in Mexico.
Like a ship unless I can manually disconnect Quicksilver into having an isolated chassis. With option to manually tie ito earth ground.
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Sep-10-2019 10:05 AM
ScottG wrote:A Dual pole 50amp GFCI breaker is about $90.00 A 30amp single pole GFCI breaker is about $40.00 That would be about $10,000 for a typical 75 site RV Park. The extra employee to handle all the questions and complaints generated by all the haphazardly wired RVs will probably run another $20,000 each season. Then there is the fact that GFCI breakers tend to fail in about 3 years when used outside. Then it is replacement time. All said, nothing that a $5.00 a night rate increase won't cover.
Naturally the company that makes GFCI's want's 50A RV's to be included. They stand to make a ton of money.
Imagine all those RV's tripping them with problem firdges, etc and then going to the CG demanding they "fix" it.
Sounds like a new market out there for isolation XFMR's.
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Sep-10-2019 09:36 AM
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Sep-10-2019 09:31 AM
"The NEC updated the Code for outdoor outlets supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts to ground or less, 50 amps or less. Key to this update: it extends beyond receptacle outlets to include all outlets. Now all hard-wired equipment falls under the Code’s purview."
A quick read would let one think it doesn't apply to a 240 volt circuit. A non-electrical person would come to the same conclusion.
Also, I believe most people think "receptacle" and "outlet" are the same thing. I did, until hitting the definitions section just now.
I hope the price of the double-pole GFCI breakers comes down.
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Sep-10-2019 08:51 AM
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Sep-10-2019 08:37 AM
ScottG wrote:Interesting but does that really offer protection? Thinking that a bonded ground around/through the transformer is still required by code and of course there are other grounds like jacks, water lines, cable TV, etc.
Naturally the company that makes GFCI's want's 50A RV's to be included. They stand to make a ton of money.
Imagine all those RV's tripping them with problem firdges, etc and then going to the CG demanding they "fix" it.
Sounds like a new market out there for isolation XFMR's.
Asking because I don't know what code requirements a transformer would require. And perhaps their cost might send RVs to the GFCI repair shop.
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Sep-10-2019 08:33 AM
CA Traveler wrote:NEC wrote:I'm not sure how this statement in the article for future considerations apply to a home RV plug.
I believe the NEC should revisit Article 547 for agricultural buildings and Article 551 for RVs and RV parks to address valid shock hazard concerns and consider increasing GFCI protection to 50 amps.
After the new regulations in 2020 go into effect you have an electrician install a 30A or 50A plug in your home for your RV. Is he required to use a GFCI or not? I suspect he will be because homes are now required to have GFCIs and of course who knows what a homeowner might plug into their "RV plug".
For example I have a 30A extension cord that I can plug into my 50A RV pedestal (with adapter) to have less voltage drop for using back yard tools. My otherwise outside GFCI plugs are on a 15A GFCI with very long length and 14 gauge wire. ie The very last one located in the garage won't allow my saw to cut hot butter. And it's 100% to code.
I've been able to use my garden tools on my GFCI circuit and it's becoming mute for me as I slowly switch to battery operated tools. That will leave my smoker BBQ which only draws a few amps and some Christmas lights. And yes those lights trip the GFCI when it rains but the protection is there.
The exception for RV parks is in their section of the code - it does not apply to a home receptacle, whether designated for an RV or not.
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Sep-10-2019 08:21 AM
It does look like when the local authority accepts the 2020 code, home 30 & 50 amp receptacles will need GFCIs, and they probably will start appearing in campgrounds in the future. It would be good to check your RV to insure that it will connect to a GFCI without problems.
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Sep-10-2019 08:20 AM
NEC wrote:I'm not sure how this statement in the article for future considerations apply to a home RV plug.
I believe the NEC should revisit Article 547 for agricultural buildings and Article 551 for RVs and RV parks to address valid shock hazard concerns and consider increasing GFCI protection to 50 amps.
After the new regulations in 2020 go into effect you have an electrician install a 30A or 50A plug in your home for your RV. Is he required to use a GFCI or not? I suspect he will be because homes are now required to have GFCIs and of course who knows what a homeowner might plug into their "RV plug".
For example I have a 30A extension cord that I can plug into my 50A RV pedestal (with adapter) to have less voltage drop for using back yard tools. My otherwise outside GFCI plugs are on a 15A GFCI with very long length and 14 gauge wire. ie The very last one located in the garage won't allow my saw to cut hot butter. And it's 100% to code.
I've been able to use my garden tools on my GFCI circuit and it's becoming mute for me as I slowly switch to battery operated tools. That will leave my smoker BBQ which only draws a few amps and some Christmas lights. And yes those lights trip the GFCI when it rains but the protection is there.
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2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Bob