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Norcold 12cu Drains Battery on LP

hugsfamily
Explorer
Explorer
Good day all,

Looking for some advice. We just upgraded to a 2022 Crusader 305rlp fifth wheel. We park our rig in storage with no access to shore power. We have always gone to storage and turned our fridge on (LP) the day before we are to leave for a trip. The fridge cools overnight and is ready to go the next day. With the new fridge, every time we do this, it drains the battery in just a few hours and we arrive at storage to a hot fridge. We have a pre-installed port for a Furrion solar panel that is located near the storage compartment at the front near the pin. We wouldn't want to leave a solar panel unsecured at storage as batteries have been known to 'disappear' and we are sure a solar panel might too. Considering getting a solar panel with a long cable, setting the panel on the roof and using a bike style cable to lock it to the ladder. Husband is worried that that would work for daylight hours but that the fridge would drain the battery overnight and turn off.

Looking for any ideas, thoughts, anyone else have this experience? Without a solution, we would have to take all of our food in coolers for the first 24 hours of any trip....that's way to much like our old days of tent camping!!!!

Thanks.
Hugsfamily
2022 Crusader 305rlp
2016 Chevy Silverado 2500 Gas
41 REPLIES 41

4x4van
Explorer III
Explorer III
Circuit breakers have no bearing on your fridge when operating on propane, so it was the battery that was bad.
We don't stop playing because we grow old...We grow old because we stop playing!

2004 Itasca Sunrise M-30W
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Gdetrailer
Explorer III
Explorer III
dougrainer wrote:
GDETRAILER, Why are you arguing a point? The plain fact is Analogs when on Genset are NOT ACCURATE. Digitals are. My take is, if you are too ignorant to understand 110/120 nomenclature, maybe you need to take a RV online course or get a RV for dummies book. ALL RV owners need and understand how to use,
Digital multimeter
12 volt test light
120 digital plug in meter
12 volt digital plug in meter
Understand 12 volt readings for batteries and understand the various voltage readings to determine battery condition.
LAST, READ THE MANUALS THAT COME WITH YOUR RV. Very few do this. Doug


Doug, while I generally respect your knowledge and opinions, I do feel you are stepping quite a few notches out of being respectful (as a side note..been noticing a lot of your posts elsewhere have been not so nice lately).

I can't help the fact that SOME Analog meters may have excessive inaccuracies.. But you must understand the not ALL are inaccurate as you have broadly painted.

When dealing with "Joe public" (which I have), often you need to be able to dial down "techno speak" to something they can understand.

Myself, well as an Electronic Tech for better than 30 yrs working on consumer and industrial electronic and electrical stuff, I do have a very good handle on Analog and digital volt meters.

There are places where digital volt meters are not needed nor wanted, DVMs sometimes will have way to fast reaction time making troubleshooting difficult or impossible to do due to the fast voltage spikes they show.

Some things simply do not need "Fluke" accuracy..

120V stuff IS one of those, we are not splitting hairs over tenths or thousandths of a volt.

It is generally accepted as "normal" for your "line voltage" to be 120V as the nominal voltage. Normal acceptable voltage range allows for +(-) 5% voltage change.

+(-) 5% of 120V is +(-)6V so OPTIMAL "GO" range is 114V-126V

Most equipment designed to use 120V AC is designed for worst case operation of +(-) 10% or +(-)12V which is 108V-136V

Normal non inverter generators are typically set to run slightly faster when unloaded, resulting in a slightly higher voltage of 122V-123V which is well within normally acceptable 5% range.

When loaded the engine RPM sags and the resulting voltage sags under 120V, typically 118V..

And as I pointed out in a previous post, there ARE other Analog 120V plug in volt meters, lots of other brands to chose from.. They do have something called a "search engine" on the wobbly web which you can use to find alternative non Camco products.

And no, I not a big fan of Camco products, it was the first one to pop up when I searched..

All you had to do is simply point out that their (customers) gen voltage is fine and their meter is a bit off on accuracy and if they see the meter go well into the red they need to get things checked out professionally. It is far better to error on the safe side.

Most folks if you showed them a digital readout of 108V-136V they simply would not know what that means (nor do they care) other than they have electricity..

But show them a visual representation which has a green is good and red is bad and they instantly can make the connection of where they stand.

dougrainer
Nomad
Nomad
GDETRAILER, Why are you arguing a point? The plain fact is Analogs when on Genset are NOT ACCURATE. Digitals are. My take is, if you are too ignorant to understand 110/120 nomenclature, maybe you need to take a RV online course or get a RV for dummies book. ALL RV owners need and understand how to use,
Digital multimeter
12 volt test light
120 digital plug in meter
12 volt digital plug in meter
Understand 12 volt readings for batteries and understand the various voltage readings to determine battery condition.
LAST, READ THE MANUALS THAT COME WITH YOUR RV. Very few do this. Doug

2112
Explorer II
Explorer II
My point was the OP should have at least an inexpensive voltmeter in her tool bag to troubleshoot electrical issues. She needs to learn her systems.

My other point was dealers aren't 'Cheap' for providing only 1 battery in a typical rv with an absorption fridge. If you feel the need for more battery, stop being 'Cheap' and go buy more. My guess is about half of RV owners get by with just 1 battery.

Carry On
2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost SuperCab Max Tow, 2084# Payload, 11,300# Tow,
Timbrens
2013 KZ Durango 2857

Gdetrailer
Explorer III
Explorer III
dougrainer wrote:
I state digital because the Analog meter(needle type) are OFF by up to 25% when reading Genset voltage. For years I had customers come in with that cheap Analog meter scared because it showed 109 to 113 volts with their 7k Onan running. I would use my Fluke meter and show them that the ACTUAL voltage was 123 volts with both AC's running. Real world Experience does wonders for using the correct tools. Doug

PS, in your yellow meter, what had them worried was because it SHOWED RED.


That one was from a quick search, many other analog meters similar to the one I found which might show a wider range and better accuracy if you look around..

I mean like another quick search came up with this one..



Looks like 113V-127V as green or good which IS normal and acceptable voltage range..

Typically acceptable voltage drop of +(-)5% from 120V is 6V or 114V to 126V so that meter range is actually correct.

+(-) 10% is 12V or 108V-132V which is the outer limits of normal line voltage which should be avoided..

"110V" is a "figure of speech", 120V is actually what the grid is suppose to be. My home voltage typically hovers around 120V-121V day and night. Recently was camping in high heat, the campground voltage was 110V and was dropping to 108V at times.. Not a good idea for most items if you want it to last.

Digitals can be problematic since the reading refresh is often very fast, it shows "peaks and valleys" in the voltage too easily, meaning folks can get spooked when the display jumps or drops a few volts while they are looking at it.

Not to mention, I don't know of any digital meters which are going to alert the user when the voltage goes out of normal range.

Analog meters are naturally dampened by the meter movement and react far slower averaging out the voltage fluctuations.

There are times when analog meters are more helpful for troubleshooting since they tend to average quick changing voltages.

dougrainer
Nomad
Nomad
I state digital because the Analog meter(needle type) are OFF by up to 25% when reading Genset voltage. For years I had customers come in with that cheap Analog meter scared because it showed 109 to 113 volts with their 7k Onan running. I would use my Fluke meter and show them that the ACTUAL voltage was 123 volts with both AC's running. Real world Experience does wonders for using the correct tools. Doug

PS, in your yellow meter, what had them worried was because it SHOWED RED.

Gdetrailer
Explorer III
Explorer III
dougrainer wrote:
https://www.amazon.com/ICQUANZX-Voltmeter-Measuring-Household-Measure/dp/B08RHT61GT/ref=sr_1_3?crid=...

THIS is what every RV needs in the kitchen area 120 plugs. Especially Motorhomes with Gensets. I use BOTH as a RV tech. It makes it very quick to determine if there is power to the RV. Faster than getting out my multitester. Most RV's have a cigarette plug at the TV booster wall plate. AND, most Motorhome Dash plugs, 1 will be connected to the Coach battery system. Doug

Below is also needed.

https://www.amazon.com/Jebsens-Charger-Battery-Monitor-Voltage/dp/B07K2XL6VX/ref=sr_1_37?crid=1BPUKR...


Digital is nice to read, but in some respects isn't going to be "helpful" to the average person who doesn't know or care about electrical voltages.

A meter that spells out clearly what is OK and not OK would be a better choice that gets the point across..



Camco 55263 120V AC Line Voltage Meter found HERE gives a well defined "Go/No GO" indication with green as GO and red as NO GO..

Battery is the same issue, not many folks will understand what 10.5V is and what 14.8V is let alone 12.8V..

Something that shows battery in graphical form gets the point across faster and easier than just a digital voltage readout..

Something like this..



Found HERE is a better choice (although does require some initial setup).

dougrainer
Nomad
Nomad
https://www.amazon.com/ICQUANZX-Voltmeter-Measuring-Household-Measure/dp/B08RHT61GT/ref=sr_1_3?crid=...

THIS is what every RV needs in the kitchen area 120 plugs. Especially Motorhomes with Gensets. I use BOTH as a RV tech. It makes it very quick to determine if there is power to the RV. Faster than getting out my multitester. Most RV's have a cigarette plug at the TV booster wall plate. AND, most Motorhome Dash plugs, 1 will be connected to the Coach battery system. Doug

Below is also needed.

https://www.amazon.com/Jebsens-Charger-Battery-Monitor-Voltage/dp/B07K2XL6VX/ref=sr_1_37?crid=1BPUKR...

Gdetrailer
Explorer III
Explorer III
ramsaymike wrote:
2112 wrote:
Thermoguy wrote:
Please get a volt meter - one better than the $15 one...

Or get one of these:

LCD Display
LMAO
You're saying buy a $17 panel mount monitor with external shunt rather than buying a $15 handheld DMM for troubleshooting? Really
The monitor and DMM do not have the same application. That LCD monitor should be standard in every RV. No use guessing what is going on when you can have the real data - accurate DC voltage, current and energy flows. The OP would have seen the real cause of the problem immediately.


Not necessarily true.

Not "everyone" will know, understand or interpret correctly what a more complex battery monitor readout shows and that will end up causing a flood of non issues to blow out of proportion for the manufacturers and dealers and even lead to amateur "sparkies" to needlessly replace parts.

There is a reason many auto manufacturers buffer their gauges or only provide "idiot" lights.

For the average non sparky, a basic "go/no go" simplified battery indicator included with most RVs will work just fine.

ramsaymike
Explorer
Explorer
2112 wrote:
Thermoguy wrote:
Please get a volt meter - one better than the $15 one...

Or get one of these:

LCD Display
LMAO
You're saying buy a $17 panel mount monitor with external shunt rather than buying a $15 handheld DMM for troubleshooting? Really
The monitor and DMM do not have the same application. That LCD monitor should be standard in every RV. No use guessing what is going on when you can have the real data - accurate DC voltage, current and energy flows. The OP would have seen the real cause of the problem immediately.
2014 Cedar Creek Cottage CRS
2007 Coachmen Concord M275 (6.0 diesel)

dougrainer
Nomad
Nomad
2112 wrote:
I accept that. I was comparing my previous 24' TT to my now 32' FW. There isn't any more load in the FW, just more space. The load count is identical.

But I think we may have missed the point "Required battery capacity is defined by how the rig is being used, not its size"

Maybe other than the consideration of a residential fridge, you would need to be boondocking to require additional batteries. If you are a pedestal hopper such as we and many others are, you don't need anything more than a single group 24.

The dealer or mfg installs a single group 24 for the emergency brake to make it legal. Anything beyond that is usually on your dime. That doesn't make the dealer cheap. They're just trying to stay in business.

"OP's problem was he had a BAD battery and just replacing the Battery fixed his problem"
I agree with this. I doubt the battery ever got fully charged.


You still have missed the point:) Your 32 foot has a LOT more load. More lights(but LED's make it a lot less). Your furnace is bigger. But, you are correct if you never boondock and always use CG Shore Power. Just cheap battery will do. Unless you do have the Inverter to run the residential refer. Then 2 usually will do. There are 2 versions in towable's. Residential Refers that have only an Inverter to run the refer and the TV system. Then you have the towables that have the Inverter/Charger to run the refer AND the microwave and the entertainment systems. These require 2 batteries and sometimes they have capacity for 4 to 6 batteries. But, you are correct about the dealer. Except for Airstreams, almost ALL towables come with NO 12 volt battery. It is part of dealer prep to install the battery or batteries. Our dealership installs 4 batteries on the large 5th wheels that have the capacity for 4 to 6, because they have the larger Inverted appliances. If the customer wants 6 he pays for the extra 2. Interesting is the fact that the Towable delivery services, very few install a temp battery for OEM to dealer transport. So the Break away is useless. Doug

2112
Explorer II
Explorer II
I accept that. I was comparing my previous 24' TT to my now 32' FW. There isn't any more load in the FW, just more space. The load count is identical.

But I think we may have missed the point "Required battery capacity is defined by how the rig is being used, not its size"

Maybe other than the consideration of a residential fridge, you would need to be boondocking to require additional batteries. If you are a pedestal hopper such as we and many others are, you don't need anything more than a single group 24.

The dealer or mfg installs a single group 24 for the emergency brake to make it legal. Anything beyond that is usually on your dime. That doesn't make the dealer cheap. They're just trying to stay in business.

"OP's problem was he had a BAD battery and just replacing the Battery fixed his problem"
I agree with this. I doubt the battery ever got fully charged.
2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost SuperCab Max Tow, 2084# Payload, 11,300# Tow,
Timbrens
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dougrainer
Nomad
Nomad
2112 wrote:
Grit dog wrote:
One battery in a big 5ver is just the mfg or dealer being cheap.
This doesn't make sense. Why would the size of the rig dictate battery capacity? The load in a 19' TT would be the same as a 36' FW other than the furnace.

Required battery capacity is defined by how the rig is being used, not its size


NOT SO, A 37 foot RV will have probably 3 times the 12 volt appliances and draw. So, you need at least 2 batteries and if you have a residential in a 37 foot, 4 or 6 batteries depending on what the OEM designed the Battery compartment to hold. Same reason a 19 foot will have a 30 amp converter and a 37 foot will have a 75 amp converter(or an Inverter/Charger if it has a residential refer). Doug

PS, I will state the OP's problem was he had a BAD battery and just replacing the Battery fixed his problem

Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
2112 wrote:
Grit dog wrote:
One battery in a big 5ver is just the mfg or dealer being cheap.
This doesn't make sense. Why would the size of the rig dictate battery capacity? The load in a 19' TT would be the same as a 36' FW other than the furnace.

Required battery capacity is defined by how the rig is being used, not its size


You're right, it probably doesn't, if you don't understand electricity....
Let me name off a few things that "might" use a wee bit more DC power in a big full featured 5ver vs your hypothetical 19' TT.
- Furnace, you got that one. Bigger or runs longer to warm up the camper, or both.
- Fridge, if it has DC mode. 10-12cf will use more power apples to apples compared to a 5-6cf. Not much difference on LP though, agreed.
- Ceiling fan(s)
- More vent fans
- More lights
- Power awning (s)
- Power jacks, possibly power stabilizers/levelers
- Slideouts, big camper more likely to have a slideout or multiple slides vs your hypothetical 19' TT.
- More water capacity generally = more water used = more pump run time
- Bigger camper can handle and is designed to house more people. More people = more power used, to an extent.

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