Opinions from other repair techs re: replacing rubber roof?

[AmerRV]

Hi all,

I own an RV repair shop. We have one insurance adjustor who argues with our methods almost constantly. Long stories on various issues, but they boil down to doing "adequate" vs. quality repairs.

The issue concerns a damaged RV roof. It's a 35 ft motor home, 2015 model so fairly new, with extensive damage to the EPDM roof membrane. As a rule I don't like to just patch. If the damage covers a large area, to me it justifies putting a whole new, one piece membrane on. The insurance adjustor agrees with that but he balks at replacing the luan underlayment.

In my experience, once the membrane is pulled up you're left with a LOT of glue to scrape off, and pulling the old roof off tends to pull chunks of the old underlayment off with it. It's difficult (sometimes impossible) to get the old surface smoothed out enough to be a viable surface for the new membrane. Over the years it's become my standard to lay down new luan and then lay down the new membrane. The result is a very smooth roof, without any question of bubbles or debris underneath that will never allow the new roof to completely glue down.

This adjustor refuses to accept that (we've never run into this with any other insurance companies, and we work with many). We've reached a standoff of sorts because I feel there's no question that a 35 foot roof membrane needs new underlayment since it would be a huge area to have to smooth out. This is a fairly new RV, the owners want it done right, and I can't stand behind my work if I have to cut corners like that.

I'd like to know what others do in these situations, the preferred method for quality repair.

[ReneeG]

Good point on the insurance companies. We have Allstate and in a tire separation case, it damaged a lot of our FW. All work was done with the highest quality and at no time did Allstate question any of it.

My question is - how would or how did the insurance company get involved in replacing a roof which is a maintenance thing, or was some part of it damaged resulting in the insurance company to get involved? I guess I missed that part.

Thanks.

[soren]

Hope a lot of folks were paying attention to the insurance company involved here, and Doug's mention of another potential nightmare with Geico. I have a buddy that owns a body shop. My brother was in the car rental business. Both of them have told me that you can deal with a stark raving mad customer who got screwed by their insurer, and ask, "Geico or Progressive?" The body shop guy tells me that he will do Geico claims but he knows that he will always, without fail, get paid less than a fair total from them. Doesn't matter if it's the adjuster picking some arbitrarily low hourly rate, out of thin air, or arguing about some BS that no ethical adjuster would even try to pull. He gets screwed, every time. Not enough to turn down the work, but enough to make you wish that you never heard their name again.

[AmerRV]

Thanks for all the accolades folks. A pat on the back once in a while is always a good thing ... but really, it's how we run our business and nothing out of the ordinary. It's just a shame we have to fight insurance companies to do repairs the RIGHT way. It shouldn't be that way.

[sgfrye]

troubledwaters wrote:
I see it like this
1. tell the customer he can pay to replace the luan (insurance won't cover it)
- or -
2. he can take the RV to a different shop (you won't do it the other way).

Considering the time involved to prep the surface vs. a remove and replace the difference in cost can't be more then a couple of hundred $'s. If I was the customer, I'd raise hell with the insurance company but pay the couple hundred if I had to. Either way your problem is solved.

x2 on this
im an rv owner not rv tech. nor do i own a rv repair shop, but i have been in the retail business working with customers for 30 years

as a customer i would appreciate your honesty and dedication to your standards of work.

i would pay the difference if no other option from insurance company and change insurance companies asap

btw i wish you were located closer to my area so i could use you for rv service and repair

[DavinD]

If I ever need a new roof, I know where I'd like to go. Nice to see someone take pride in their workmanship.

[AmerRV]

Now for the final outcome: Long story short, Progressive paid our entire original Estimate - IN FULL. But they took until last week to do it. This is the worst insurance claim we've had to deal with.

The customer was very upset because they had Spring Break camping plans, and we didn't know if we'd be able to get the repairs done in time due to all the delays. This customer is a very, very nice man, calm and quiet manner. But he called Progressive and must have been not-so-nice because he got the adjustor's supervisor involved. When the boss man talked to the customer, he was playing it up big. He said in order to get the repairs done ASAP so they could make their trip, we could order parts overnighted and they'd cover it. But when he talked to us, he back tracked on those promises. It was difficult to the end.

Without going into all of it, we did the roof our way - the correct way - and they didn't require the adjustor to come and inspect it after tear-down. They allowed us to send photos which, of course, showed the damage left after tearing up the original EPDM. We finished the job with just barely enough time for the customer and his family to leave on their trip.

Given all the trouble Progressive had given us over this repair, we intended to hang onto the RV until we were guaranteed payment of the final $1,542.75 they had withheld for the roof repairs. When we contacted them they sent a screenshot of the request for payment to be issued, saying they "hoped it would suffice." Because we really liked this customer and he did have plans, we let the RV leave the shop on 3/30/18. The check didn't come ... and didn't come ... and didn't come. When we contacted them again, they said they'd stop payment and issue a new one. We FINALLY got payment 4/23/18.

Got a one-line email from the customer yesterday: "How disappointing has this process been." He's shopping for new insurance.

Photos of roof with new substrate, and then completed.

[AmerRV]

dougrainer wrote:

Slownsy wrote:
I am surprised that nobody has comments re the newer herd of wacum bonded walls, I am no rv tech but are aware of the difference in designs.
Frank.

What do walls have to do with this problem? Explain your reasoning. Doug

Doug, I mentioned vacuum bonded walls in an earliest post. The adjustor go hung up on that and it took well over a month, maybe two, to get him to move on. We hadn't heard of it before and in the end the rear wall we needed was NOT vacuum bonded, so as of yet we haven't worked with any.

[AmerRV]

dougrainer wrote:

Weldon wrote:
Request another adjuster. This job is far to expensive considering labor and material to be done incorrectly. The cost of the new luan would be what...around $120. Money well spent.

Cost of Luan is more than that. You must buy 4 by 10 foot sheets. 4 by 10 foot sheets are MORE expensive than 4 by 8 foot sheets due to their lack of stocking in most areas. Doug

There is only ONE adjustor for our entire region. It's this clown or nobody.

And Doug is right, the luan has to be purchased in 4 x 10 sheets and is very expensive, and there's only one place we've found that carries it in our area. They don't deliver and it takes at minimum an hour and a half each time we go over there.

[dougrainer]

Slownsy wrote:
I am surprised that nobody has comments re the newer herd of wacum bonded walls, I am no rv tech but are aware of the difference in designs.
Frank.

What do walls have to do with this problem? Explain your reasoning. Doug

[Planning]

AmerRV wrote:


We sent that to the adjuster; it would seem he has no choice but to authorize it now, but we'll have to see what happens next.

How did the adjuster respond?

[Slownsy]

I am surprised that nobody has comments re the newer herd of wacum bonded walls, I am no rv tech but are aware of the difference in designs.
Frank.

[bighatnohorse]

StirCrazy wrote:
just do up the estimate two ways, one showing the labour costs to make the existing luan dead smooth so it can be reused, then do one with the cost of putting another layer over to get the smooth finish. 9 out of 10 times the re-decking will be the cheaper option.

Steve

My thoughts exactly. Never say "no" to the one who pays the bills - just say how much and give options. Get it in writing and never do shoddy work.

[StirCrazy]

just do up the estimate two ways, one showing the labour costs to make the existing luan dead smooth so it can be reused, then do one with the cost of putting another layer over to get the smooth finish. 9 out of 10 times the re-decking will be the cheaper option.

Steve

[blofgren]

DrewE wrote:
I doubt I will ever have need of your services, or at least hope not as it would mean having RV trouble many, many miles from home, but on behalf of more than a few RVers thank you for sticking to your guns and insisting on doing a proper job. The way things are going, it sounds like you may have gained a loyal customer, and the insurance company lost one--and, in both cases, rightly so.

x2. And I'm not that far from you and will definitely keep you in mind for major work like this. 🙂