Progressive Industries Electrical Management System

[Empty_Nest__Soo]

On the hardwired version, how important is the remote?

I’m considering not bothering with buying the version with the remote, mainly because of the bother of running the wiring for it from the electrical service bay to the inside of the coach.

If the remote is really useful, I would run the wire. But I figure the device will protect me from electrical problems and I can always check in the bay if I need to look at the readout. Which I would expect to be infrequently.

Am I missing something?

Wayne

[myredracer]

I installed the hardwired version under our dinette seat since the panel/converter was mounted on the end. If there is a problem, I just need to lift the cushion and plywood off. I also got the remote readout because the EMS is mounted vertically and wouldn't be able to see the display on the case. I mounted the remote on the floor.

The blinking display is pretty annoying. We have enough LED displays in the kitchen/living area that provide enough night lighting - blue and green. Adding a red display would look like Xmas and miake it too bright...

Personally I don't like the design of the remote display as it's meant for service mounting only. I'd rather have one that would fit on a standard sized flush mount outlet box cover if I were to mount it on a wall.

I'll probably mount the remote inside an upper cabinet where it's easy to get to. I don't need to see the voltage reading since we have a permanently mounted LED display on the wall which is the important one to keep an eye on. The cable that comes with the remote is something like 20' long and is a few feet short of my preferred mounting location at one end of a line of cabinets.

If I wanted an LED readout with AC volts and amps I'd look at something like this DROK item which doesn't blink either (around $20 on Amazon & ebay).

I really like our PI EMS. It shut us down at one CG this season with simultaneous open ground and low volts. These things are worth every penny they cost.

[SoundGuy]

CA Traveler wrote:
It's also possible the PE2 occurred when replugging. Just happened to me because of a worn plug which will be replaced.

So I did retrieve my EMS remote display from our trailer this morning and duplicated your test using my own EU2000i as source power because it has a floating neutral output that is interpreted by the Progressive EMS as an "open ground", a condition that can be corrected with the use of a G-N bonding plug. Indeed, you were absolutely correct - once power is removed completely the EMS loses any "previous error" code, so it's therefore not held in any kind of EPROM memory. That also means that because I did have a PE2 code when camping it had to have occurred after campsite power was restored, not before. However, I'm still a bit perplexed at just when the EMS loses memory - when incoming power is totally disconnected or when it drops below the display unit's stated operating range of 78 to 255 volts. :h Interesting stuff though ... thanks! :B

[SoundGuy]

CA Traveler wrote:
My unit is 11 years old so there may have been changes.

Perhaps it's worth a call to Progressive to ask if there have been any changes and if so whether you can upgrade yours.

Tomorrow looks like a nice day here so I think I'll try to retrieve the EMS remote display from my winter stored trailer and perform the genset test you mentioned to figure out just what "previous error" functionality really means.

[CA_Traveler]

My unit is 11 years old so there may have been changes.

[SoundGuy]

CA Traveler wrote:
It's also possible the PE2 occurred when replugging. Just happened to me because of a worn plug which will be replaced.

That's an interesting thought as I did note that the campsite post 30 amp receptacle was in pretty rough shape, so much so that when we left the following day I stopped at the gate house to let them know. Hmmm, wish I had the remote display for my EMS here at the house so I could do some testing to clarify just how this thing functions.

[CA_Traveler]

It's also possible the PE2 occurred when replugging. Just happened to me because of a worn plug which will be replaced.

Even though I started this subject I agree it's a minor consideration. Also I don't know of any good way to detect an unexpected disconnect vs intentional unless there there is manual input via say a switch.

[SoundGuy]

otrfun wrote:
It's possible you may have a new version of PI EMS with an EPROM memory capability.

Sounds like a reasonable explanation since I just bought this EMS recently but clarification from Progressive would be helpful. I do know for a fact that in this particular incident power was completely disrupted because when I first noticed the EMS remote panel wasn't displaying anything I checked the power post itself with a DVM and had no voltage reading at all. In the course of doing so I also disconnected the trailer's main service cable entirely from the campsite post supply and in fact left it disconnected until a few hours later when park staff swung by to tell us the problem had been resolved and power was back on. We were also camping with friends who were on the site next to us and they too lost power completely for several hours. Once we were told power had been restored I then plugged back in, saw the usual E0, but noted that the normally blank display following E0 showed PE2, meaning a previous error - open ground. That's when I took those pics, also a short video of the display, so it would seem that error code had to be held in some sort of memory. Interestingly, I too have an EU2000i so I could replicate your test except the trailer is now in winter storage and although I have the EMS in my workshop I left the remote display mounted in the trailer so I guess I'd have to wait 'til spring to do this test.

[SoundGuy]

Bobbo wrote:
Personally, I think that is a solution in search of a problem. Like others have mentioned, my MW tells me if the power was off. If the EMS shows no previous error codes, I know the pedestal power was off. That gives me all the information that is being discussed here.

Well not necessarily ... if your camper is powered with everything running fine, then you leave and power goes off during your absence but is restored before your return, you wouldn't know at all from the EMS that power had been off unless that power disruption had been accompanied by some sort of fault such as the open ground situation I described earlier. I agree it's not much of an issue when a quick glance at the microwave oven will tell you if there has been been a power disruption during your absence ... perhaps that's Progressive thinking as well, though it would have been a handy feature to have included in these EMS units.

[otrfun]

SoundGuy wrote:
. . . it was a stormy weekend and we did lose power completely but when it was restored my EMS indicated a previous error PE2 which means an open ground. Obviously that open ground condition occurred before power was lost completely . . .

On my PI EMS (with a remote display) and two others that I helped install, ANY error code (Ex or PEx) is permanently lost once input power is removed/lost from the TT (and, as a consequence, the PI EMS).

FWIW, I can replicate your scenario by forcing an E2 error with my generator by removing the bonding plug. However, once the generator is shut-down and commercial power or generator power (with the bonding plug inserted) is reapplied, the PE2 error is permanently lost. At that point there is nothing to indicate any previous error or malfunction of any type. It simply acts like it's being turned on the first time.

It's possible you may have a new version of PI EMS with an EPROM memory capability.

[Bobbo]

Personally, I think that is a solution in search of a problem. Like others have mentioned, my MW tells me if the power was off. If the EMS shows no previous error codes, I know the pedestal power was off. That gives me all the information that is being discussed here.

[SoundGuy]

CA Traveler wrote:
And why didn't I think of looking at another device to check power?

And resetting the MW clock every time power is off can become a PITA over the long term. That's a device that could use a battery even more. What do you think of the odds of that option in a home appliance? Or I could just leave the inverter turned on...

Frankly I've never given much thought to the fact that the Progressive EMS units don't offer any indication that power has dropped out completely. Obviously the monitor screen goes blank when there's no power but if you're away from the camper at the time and return later after power has been restored you'd never know from the EMS unless that power dropout also included some sort of line error. That's exactly what happened in my previously mentioned example - it was a stormy weekend and we did lose power completely but when it was restored my EMS indicated a previous error PE2 which means an open ground. Obviously that open ground condition occurred before power was lost completely but as is the case here at the house if it's just a simple power drop out I still know that power was disconnected because when it's restored the clock on the microwave oven needs to be reset. That's pretty hard to miss but I agree it would be handy if the EMS could somehow indicate restoration of power - a small light, or even if it flashed at twice the speed until you hit a reset button or perhaps switched it to bypass and then back on again to reset it to normal operating mode. :h

[CA_Traveler]

And why didn't I think of looking at another device to check power?

And resetting the MW clock every time power is off can become a PITA over the long term. That's a device that could use a battery even more. What do you think of the odds of that option in a home appliance? Or I could just leave the inverter turned on...

[SoundGuy]

CA Traveler wrote:
Unfortunately the unit does not have a battery and if pedestal power turns off/on then the unit resets and there is no fault displayed.

Bobbo wrote:
This is true, just like you had unplugged and driven to the next campground. The unit can't tell the difference between complete power loss at the pedestal and you unplugging the RV.

I guess I'm just not seeing the problem ... if I'm in the trailer and power drops out the EMS display will go blank, if I'm away from the trailer at the time and return later after power has been restored I'd still instantly know that had happened because the clock display on the microwave oven would be blank. If this is such a concern for you have you contacted Progressive and suggested a "voltage dropout" feature be included in the remote display functionality? :@

[CA_Traveler]

Nice picture and that is exactly how mine works and in this case the pedestal did not lose power.

I posted "if pedestal power turns off/on then the unit resets and there is no fault displayed" and by that I mean there is no power at the pedestal.