Revived Trailer Tire Thread (formerly on the 5th Wheel Forum

[CapriRacer]

OK, I'll try this again but with a different tack.

I am of the opinion that ST tires should have a 15% reserve capacity (85% of the load at a given pressure) in order to be reasonably sure they won't fail. There are a couple of ways of estimating what the actual load is on a given tire of a trailer, but the best way is to actually measure each tire. The RMA has a procedure to follow:

http://www.rma.org/publications/tire_service_professionals/index.cfm?PublicationID=11516

I am of the opinion that this 15% reserve capacity is likely to require higher load ranges and larger sized ST tires - or both. And maybe even a step into LT type tires - and here is where it gets tricky.

While I feel uncomfortable recommending that LT tires be loaded to their maximum load, that is in essence the result. I feel uncomfortable with that because I don't have enough experience to say it with confidence. However, I have no hesitation in recommending replacing ST tires with LT tires if it can be done with enough clearances around the tire.

A couple of other points:

ST tires can be inflated 10 psi over the maximum pressure listed in the sidewall of the tire - and I'd recommend that if you can't get to a 15% reserve capacity.

Recent bulletins from the tire industry indicate that tires degrade simply due to time. The age of a tire is important even if the tire is unused.

There is some disagreement over how to best express this age limitation,
but my take is:

If you live in a hot climate (AZ, CA, NV, TX, and FL) then the limit is six years. If you live in a cold climate (MN, ND, WI, MT, etc), then the limit is 10 years. States in between are ..... ah ........ in between.

A rule of thumb for estimating if you need more load carrying capacity:

Check the cold (ambient temperature) tire pressure before starting off. Measure the inflation pressure after an hour of driving.

If the tire pressure build up is less than 10%, it's OK. If the pressure build up is between 10% and 15%, then continue to monitor until you are sure it is not above 15%. If the pressure buildup is 15% or greater, add load carrying capacity (and one of the ways to do that is to add pressure). For ST and LT tires, NEVER use more than 10 psi over the sidewall pressure.

Any questions?

[ExRocketScienti]

The picture is of a Mission ST235/xxR16 LRE.

[FastEagle]

Cox89XJ wrote:
This is a picture of one of my failed chinese tires.

That could very well be a tire defect.

It could also be the result of misuse/abuse or both.

Having it dismounted and inspected by some experienced tire people WILL determine the cause.

FastEagle

[FastEagle]

Michelin commercial tire lineup and an ideal choice for commercial trailers because of low rolling resistance (for better fuel economy), a long-wear tread design and retreadability. These tires also have the strength of a reinforced all-steel construction for lasting durability.
Responsive handling helps you negotiate through tough traffic
Greater durability and puncture
resistance from a third steel belt.
"Easily retreadable all-steel casing
Lowest cost per mile in this category
Resists sidewall damage with the sculptured sidewall protector.
Sidewall: black serrated
outline lettering.
Load Range: E
Service Description: 120/116Q"

The above quote was posted somewhere in this thread. It can not be found in any Michelin publications dated 2010 and later. I read all of them, often.

That's not bashing. It's just getting the playing field even. So correct me if I'm wrong, just post the reference for all to see. I can't post something that I can't find.

ALL LT tires can be used on the RV trailer axles, as long as they conform with the exsisting fitment regulations. I reciently visited a large RV show at Jacksonville, FL. Took lots of pictures and compaired lots of RV trailer tires with the vehicles they were fitted to. The only LT tire found was 16", LRG. At the end of this month I'm going to the RV show here in Greenville, SC. If this thread is still active by then I'll post my findings.

FastEagle

FastEagle

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Tireman9 wrote:

Cox89XJ wrote:
When using the China made ST225/75R15D rated tires on my fifth wheel, I had 5 tire failures in 3 years. That’s how I found this forum. We got to the point that we dreaded going on long trips afraid of tire failure. It’s not fun changing a tire on the side of an interstate. With knowledge I gained from this forum along with my common sense I went with a B F Goodrich Commercial TA size LT225/75R16E. Since I had to change wheels I went with aluminum wheels also. Makes a rig look good. That has been almost 6 years ago and I’ve had no more tire problems. I cruise around 67mph. My son works at a feed mill, so weighing my rig has never been a problem. My current rig weights about 10,500 loaded and ready to go. People with lighter rigs and people who make short trips. (50 miles one way) might get by with ST’s.
The ST’s that I took off my camper were put on my utility trailer. I’ve never had a problem with them in the almost 6 years either, but the trailer never sees over 5,000 pounds.
With my experience, I’ll put LT’s on my camper next time also. If I put new tires on my utility trailer, I’ll put P rated tires. I just don’t trust ST’s after having 5 fail.
Edit: Had to adjust the years, they go by fast.
Bought a Laredo in Aug. of 03, Put new wheels and tires on in Aug. of 06, traded it for a Cougar in Aug. of 07 taking the aluminum wheels and LT tires with the Cougar.

5 failures in 3 years is extraordinary and to me indicates some external cause for the odds of getting 5 random bad tires are pretty far out. If of course there was a bad batch then the reports to NHTSA would be able to identify a broader level of failurs so there should be many dozens of similar failures which would of course lead to a recall with compensation to the owners.
You did file reports of the potential tire defects didn't you?

NHTSA is over-worked and under-staffed..:W

Trailer tires are a niche market.

But -

Where were the Goodyear recalls?.:h

There *was* a broader level of failures throughout numerous tire lines, and compensation to the owner's . . beneficiaries!.:(

One must wonder why GY continually pays for damage to owner's trailers caused by their (GY's) tire failures?

Especially since their position is - it's the owner's fault!
(Like the usual causes listed by Thomas Eagle)

Must be "Benevolence"..:B

~

[Tireman9]

Cox89XJ wrote:
When using the China made ST225/75R15D rated tires on my fifth wheel, I had 5 tire failures in 3 years. That’s how I found this forum. We got to the point that we dreaded going on long trips afraid of tire failure. It’s not fun changing a tire on the side of an interstate. With knowledge I gained from this forum along with my common sense I went with a B F Goodrich Commercial TA size LT225/75R16E. Since I had to change wheels I went with aluminum wheels also. Makes a rig look good. That has been almost 6 years ago and I’ve had no more tire problems. I cruise around 67mph. My son works at a feed mill, so weighing my rig has never been a problem. My current rig weights about 10,500 loaded and ready to go. People with lighter rigs and people who make short trips. (50 miles one way) might get by with ST’s.
The ST’s that I took off my camper were put on my utility trailer. I’ve never had a problem with them in the almost 6 years either, but the trailer never sees over 5,000 pounds.
With my experience, I’ll put LT’s on my camper next time also. If I put new tires on my utility trailer, I’ll put P rated tires. I just don’t trust ST’s after having 5 fail.
Edit: Had to adjust the years, they go by fast.
Bought a Laredo in Aug. of 03, Put new wheels and tires on in Aug. of 06, traded it for a Cougar in Aug. of 07 taking the aluminum wheels and LT tires with the Cougar.

5 failures in 3 years is extraordinary and to me indicates some external cause for the odds of getting 5 random bad tires are pretty far out. If of course there was a bad batch then the reports to NHTSA would be able to identify a broader level of failurs so there should be many dozens of similar failures which would of course lead to a recall with compensation to the owners.
You did file reports of the potential tire defects didn't you?

[Tireman9]

Cox89XJ wrote:
This is a picture of one of my failed chinese tires.

Am I correct to understand this is the Bias tire? You didn't provide the size info.
Lacking any other information such as actual load or inflation and only having the one picture to go on I would suspect either a Tread Detachemnt (tread rubber off the top body ply) or a Ply Separation (detachment between some of the body plies.
If dismounted one could see if there is a bulge on the inside and if it is hard or soft.
Final confirmation would require disection to confirm suspicion.

[ExRocketScienti]

BTW: IIRC, that picture is of a Mission tire.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

ExRocketScientist wrote:


I'm thinking our engineers will be able to tell us exactly what is going on inside this tire and the nature of the impending failure that was avoided by removing this tire from service.

Very profound statement!

Here's another:
(quote)
"RV Trailer Tire Blowouts:
They are mostly a mystery. That's because hardly anyone will take the time to investigate the cause. If the rim and tire are still intact when you get them off the vehicle, almost any well trained certified tire technician can determine the cause.

Most recipients of a trailer tire blowout are so angry about it all they want to do is point fingers. It's easy to point at a tire and call it all sorts of names and make it the culprit. People will go on the internet forums and badmouth an entire community of tire manufacturers without a shred of substantiating evidence to support their position. SHOW ME SOMETHING OTHER THAN Blah...Blah...Blah!"
(end quote - caps by the author: Fast Eagle from his blog, 'Ramblings Number One', dated 1-27-2012)

"Mystery" solved!

*LOTS* of investigation!

The "Show me" including ST

See: "The tires in question . . . ." - 5th para under "The Human Toll".

Note: No doubt many, many, many tire experts and Tire Engineers with lots of experience and certifiable "bona-fides" were utilized.
Certainly the *BEST* money could buy!

Why is this kind of documentation hard to find?.:h
Very easy answer: Sealed!

~

[ExRocketScienti]

Cox89XJ wrote:
This is a picture of one of my failed chinese tires.

OK you did it again with this picture. The natural tendency of a human when presented a picture is to look at the center. When you look at the center of this picture, you see a tire with some rocks stuck in the tread. So what. Despite making this comment about this picture about a year ago . . . well just let me help the readers who fell into the same trap as I and are saying "so what". Look at the top of the picture. You can see across the edge of the tread with the wood in the background. Normally, the tread would be either perfectly flat across it (from one side of the tire to the other) or slightly curved with the center of the tire being slightly larger in diameter than the portions near the sidewalls. But you can see in this picture that the diameter of the tire toward the sidewall that is not in contact with the wood is significantly larger than the diameter toward the sidewall that is in contact with the wood.

I'm thinking our engineers will be able to tell us exactly what is going on inside this tire and the nature of the impending failure that was avoided by removing this tire from service.

[ExRocketScienti]

CapriRacer wrote:

Cox89XJ wrote:
When using the China made ST225/75R15D rated tires on my fifth wheel, I had 5 tire failures in two years. That’s how I found this forum. We got to the point that we dreaded going on long trips afraid of tire failure. It’s not fun changing a tire on the side of an interstate. With knowledge I gained from this forum along with my common sense I went with a B F Goodrich Commercial TA size LT225/75R16E. Since I had to change wheels I went with aluminum wheels also. Makes a rig look good. That has been almost 6 years ago and I’ve had no more tire problems. I cruise around 67mph. My son works at a feed mill, so weighing my rig has never been a problem. My current rig weights about 10,500 loaded and ready to go. People with lighter rigs and people who make short trips. (50 miles one way) might get by with ST’s.
The ST’s that I took off my camper were put on my utility trailer. I’ve never had a problem with them in the almost 6 years either, but the trailer never sees over 5,000 pounds.
With my experience, I’ll put LT’s on my camper next time also. If I put new tires on my utility trailer, I’ll put P rated tires. I just don’t trust ST’s after having 5 fail.

Just so everyone who is following this thread understands - as a tire engineer, I view the change from an ST225/75R15 Load Range D to an LT225/75R16 Load Range E as a 25% increase in load carrying capacity.

I'm going to need this one explained to me. This poster went from a tire rated at 2540 lb (at 65 psi) to 2680 lb (at 80 psi). My calculator says less than 6%. Now if it had been the LT235 or LT245, my calculator indicates about 20%. So there must be something else in the tire engineers consideration here . . . and I want to know what it is. This is some more of the information that has not been available to us prior to this thread.

[azjeffh]

Cox89XJ wrote:
This is a picture of one of my failed chinese tires.

Looks just like one of my Marathons did 🙂

[Cox89XJ]

This is a picture of one of my failed chinese tires.

[azjeffh]

Cox89XJ wrote:
....I had 5 tire failures in two years. .......B F Goodrich Commercial TA size LT225/75R16E. ....

After just over 7 years I'm on my 5th set of tires. Now understand, when I have a tire go bad, I replace them all. I have been through Maxxis (LRD & E), Goodyear (LRD), and Greenball (LRE). Currently have Greenball LRE's because (just like the last time) it was the only ST Discount Tire had in stock.

So even though I have a tire pressure monitor and have been weighed (each tire individually), ST's have not worked for me.

They are coming off next week for the same TA's that you have. Glad to hear so many here having success.

[CapriRacer]

Cox89XJ wrote:
When using the China made ST225/75R15D rated tires on my fifth wheel, I had 5 tire failures in two years. That’s how I found this forum. We got to the point that we dreaded going on long trips afraid of tire failure. It’s not fun changing a tire on the side of an interstate. With knowledge I gained from this forum along with my common sense I went with a B F Goodrich Commercial TA size LT225/75R16E. Since I had to change wheels I went with aluminum wheels also. Makes a rig look good. That has been almost 6 years ago and I’ve had no more tire problems. I cruise around 67mph. My son works at a feed mill, so weighing my rig has never been a problem. My current rig weights about 10,500 loaded and ready to go. People with lighter rigs and people who make short trips. (50 miles one way) might get by with ST’s.
The ST’s that I took off my camper were put on my utility trailer. I’ve never had a problem with them in the almost 6 years either, but the trailer never sees over 5,000 pounds.
With my experience, I’ll put LT’s on my camper next time also. If I put new tires on my utility trailer, I’ll put P rated tires. I just don’t trust ST’s after having 5 fail.

Just so everyone who is following this thread understands - as a tire engineer, I view the change from an ST225/75R15 Load Range D to an LT225/75R16 Load Range E as a 25% increase in load carrying capacity.

[Cox89XJ]

When using the China made ST225/75R15D rated tires on my fifth wheel, I had 5 tire failures in 3 years. That’s how I found this forum. We got to the point that we dreaded going on long trips afraid of tire failure. It’s not fun changing a tire on the side of an interstate. With knowledge I gained from this forum along with my common sense I went with a B F Goodrich Commercial TA size LT225/75R16E. Since I had to change wheels I went with aluminum wheels also. Makes a rig look good. That has been almost 6 years ago and I’ve had no more tire problems. I cruise around 67mph. My son works at a feed mill, so weighing my rig has never been a problem. My current rig weights about 10,500 loaded and ready to go. People with lighter rigs and people who make short trips. (50 miles one way) might get by with ST’s.
The ST’s that I took off my camper were put on my utility trailer. I’ve never had a problem with them in the almost 6 years either, but the trailer never sees over 5,000 pounds.
With my experience, I’ll put LT’s on my camper next time also. If I put new tires on my utility trailer, I’ll put P rated tires. I just don’t trust ST’s after having 5 fail.
Edit: Had to adjust the years, they go by fast.
Bought a Laredo in Aug. of 03, Put new wheels and tires on in Aug. of 06, traded it for a Cougar in Aug. of 07 taking the aluminum wheels and LT tires with the Cougar.