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Solar Installation – Flying High and Far Away

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
The title reflects the unique install. The roof layout for the panels shows the roof vent and skylight. In addition there are the evil shadow producing A/Cs and ladder.

Three 250W Cynergy polycrystalline panels (65” x 39”) were installed on the roof. The panels are mounted 7.5” above the roof (hence the Flying High title :B) which virtually eliminates A/C shadows, clears the skylight and fan vent, provides better panel cooling and allows for easy under panel roof cleaning.

Installation started

6” x 1.5” angled aluminum secures the panel support with VHB tape and 3 #10 screws. The inside (near the center of the roof) support riser is 6” x 1.5” x 1/8” flat stock and is connected to the panels with angled aluminum. The outside (near the edge of the roof) support riser length was adjusted to provide a 4 degree slant on the panels for water runoff. The screws, bolts nylon locknuts and washers are stainless.

The outside riser is adjusted for a 4 degree slope for water runoff


The panels are wired in series with 10 gauge UV resistant wire. The panel wiring length is 42’ plus the Cynergy panel wires which add up to 19’ or 61’ total. The wires are secured to the roof with Dicor self leveling calk. Gorilla tape was used to initially secure the wires for several days while the Dicor firmed up. And Dicor is used to seal the wires as they pass through the roof. The wires on the lower right corner are not part of the solar project.

Wiring and Dicor


Raising the panels also allows clearance for the Fantastic roof vent. The vent is designed to stop opening when it contacts something like a tree limb and in this case a solar panel while the fan continues to run. A rubber pad is attached to the vent at the contact point with a piece of VHB tape.

Open fan vent


A rising or setting sun will only cast a shadow from the A/Cs when the sun is less than 10.6 degrees elevation and the rig orientation aligns the panel and A/C with the sun azimuth. As a result there is very little power loss if any due to shadows for the day and hence no need to raise the panels further. The picture shows the sun angle.



Here’s the controller, DC CB battery switch and A/C disconnect switch for the panel wiring. The A/C switch was cheap but not otherwise the best choice. Perhaps there will be a future upgrade to this switch and some slack was left in the wiring for this purpose. The right side controller wires are for the battery temperature, battery voltage sense, remote meter and CAT 5 crossover cable for the PC

Controller and switches


The Morningstar MPPT 60 controller is located 3’ from the inverter and uses 4 gauge wires to the inverter DC terminals. The inverter is located 20’ (hence the Far Away title :B) from the batteries and uses 4/O gauge wire.

The 4 ga wire is for the controller and the 4/O ga wire is for the batteries


The batteries are 4x6V AGM at 440AH and the temperature probe is located on the upper right battery post

5 of the small wires are for the battery monitor and shunt and the other 2 are for the solar controller battery voltage sense.

The panel disconnect switch must be off befoe the full battery disconnect switch is turned off as there is a recent Morningstar update indicating that the MPPT 60 controller can be damaged if the battery connection is removed while the controller is charging. And the battery switch must be connected before the panel switch.

The controller remote panel is located above the TV along with the battery monitor, Progressive Industries power protector remote, Wilson inside cell panel antenna, satellite receiver and satellite dish controller.


Finished panel installation


Cost: Panels $600, controller and remote $595, electrical and wiring $147, hardware $105 for $1447 and results in a cost of $1.93/watt (October 2014 prices) and yields 14.2 watts/sq ft of roof space. The prices include tax and S&H if applicable.

Wiring loss: Panels to controller 0.5V, 0.6% and controller to batteries 0.2V, 1.4%.
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob
74 REPLIES 74

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
Alert: I've updated my installation thread to use photos from imgur.com which were previously posted with photobucket. Unfortunately photobucket now requires a paid account to unlock your photo for posting to rv.net and other forums.

Click for more information.
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob

JiminDenver
Explorer II
Explorer II
Last night I was watching you tube videos on MSView. It is probably know but once connected to the net you can type in TSMPPT and your serial number into the address bar and it will open a web page displaying your controller. It's called live data and is more basic than MSView.

MSView and live data
2011 GulfStream Amerilite 25BH
2003 Ford Expedition with 435w tilting portable/ TS-MPPT-45
750w solar , TS-MPPT-60 on the trailer
675 Ah bank, Trip-lite 1250fc inverter
Sportsman 2200w inverter generator

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
westend wrote:
I know it's just me but I find MS View not very intuitive.
You're not alone. While MSView is very stable and rock solid it's not user friendly.

I contacted MS and they have no plans for updates. I've started a list to send them anyway.

For starters I want a customizable live view and logging of additional variables. Plus customizable and easy to use graphing capability, etc.

But if everyone starts asking them for updates while pointing out the marketing and public relations benefits then maybe someday...:@
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob

westend
Explorer
Explorer
CA Traveler wrote:
westend,

It sounds like your describing Live View where you login to the controller. Have you tried MSView with the loger display where you set up and save a cvs file?


I have tried different parts to log and graph and do remember the .cvs file but haven't had any results that were good.

I know it's just me but I find MS View not very intuitive. I've experienced the same with different software. At least I was able to program the set points and temp compensation is working.

I'll have to get my hands back on it to try and sort it.
'03 F-250 4x4 CC
'71 Starcraft Wanderstar -- The Cowboy/Hilton

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
Almot, I agree that the MPPT60 software and the hardware interfaces are not user friendly. Displaying graphs with their software isn't to bad but I prefer to use Excel. The controller can be plug and play but also has a lot of off grid capability.
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
westend,

It sounds like your describing Live View where you login to the controller. Have you tried MSView with the loger display where you set up and save a cvs file?
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob

Almot
Explorer III
Explorer III
Reading these high-tech pains, I can't say how happy I am with my "simple" Rogue :)... All the logs and adjustments at my fingertips. Interface panel with display and all the commands - either built-in, or remote with LAN cable. Can connect a laptop, yes, but don't have to. Hopefully somebody will start making another controller that user-friendly, now that Rogue is out.

45A for 750W is on the verge. Enough for some, not enough for others. Depends on location and time of the year. I have 30A for 500W (490W, to be exact), and it works for me too. I think it will work for me in different places, because my energy use is very low, batteries start already from 75-80% SOC in the morning and go into Absorption well before noon. By the time the panels "could" harvest +30A, my batteries don't need more than 10A. For somebody else 30A+500W might not work well.

westend
Explorer
Explorer
CA Traveler wrote:
westend, My first issue was connecting MSView to the controller. Are you past that point?
Yes, I barreled through the connection idiosyncrasies in an hour or two.

I can see real-time data and can select to save graphs and information but it never seems to work out, either the graphs don't generate or they go somewhere I can't find. I did find a folder of MS View saved files but can't open them. I know you use Excel and I may be missing an Export or Import cue along the way.
'03 F-250 4x4 CC
'71 Starcraft Wanderstar -- The Cowboy/Hilton

westend
Explorer
Explorer
JiminDenver wrote:
A TS-MPPT-60 went for $350 the day I bought mine. It was used and I assume warranties don't transfer. I've seen other good deals but either the shipping makes up the difference, the seller doesn't take returns or ratings that tell me as long as all goes well, they are good. Get a unit DOA and you are SOL.

In the end I found going off ebay that it was cheaper to get new, with warranty and returnable directly at the store.

Right now there are a number of places doing Earth day specials. I'm hoping to find some deals on switches, fuses, and the rest of the little stuff needed. Where it's all going to go, I have no idea.
Thanks, Jim. I'm going to be looking for a Morningstar upgrade in the near future, nice to know there may be a deal somewhere.
'03 F-250 4x4 CC
'71 Starcraft Wanderstar -- The Cowboy/Hilton

BoonHauler
Explorer
Explorer
CA Traveler wrote:
Yikes, $472 at SolarHome. $1500 was the total solar cost and about $1400 with the MPPT45.


Thanks for the clarification 🙂
05 RAM 3500 CTD 4x4 Q/C Laramie DRW/NV5600/3.73, B&W Gooseneck, MaxBrake, PacBrake PRXB, Brite Box Fogster, BD steering Box Brace
2014 BoonHauler 3614

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
westend, My first issue was connecting MSView to the controller. Are you past that point?
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob

JiminDenver
Explorer II
Explorer II
A TS-MPPT-60 went for $350 the day I bought mine. It was used and I assume warranties don't transfer. I've seen other good deals but either the shipping makes up the difference, the seller doesn't take returns or ratings that tell me as long as all goes well, they are good. Get a unit DOA and you are SOL.

In the end I found going off ebay that it was cheaper to get new, with warranty and returnable directly at the store.

Right now there are a number of places doing Earth day specials. I'm hoping to find some deals on switches, fuses, and the rest of the little stuff needed. Where it's all going to go, I have no idea.
2011 GulfStream Amerilite 25BH
2003 Ford Expedition with 435w tilting portable/ TS-MPPT-45
750w solar , TS-MPPT-60 on the trailer
675 Ah bank, Trip-lite 1250fc inverter
Sportsman 2200w inverter generator

westend
Explorer
Explorer
CA Traveller,
Just finished reading your threads on shading and results from your installation. Good stuff, and I hope you keep up the good work of posting about what you find.

I wonder if you could point me to a reference for help working with MSView? I sometimes have issues with certain software and this is one. If I could setup data collection files and figure out how to save graph files, it would sure help.
'03 F-250 4x4 CC
'71 Starcraft Wanderstar -- The Cowboy/Hilton

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
Yikes, $472 at SolarHome. $1500 was the total solar cost and about $1400 with the MPPT45.
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob