Surge protectors

[Lspangler]

I have a TT with a 50 amp cord. However I only have one AC. Do I buy a 30 amp surge protector or a 50 amp? I have no plans to add a second AC

Thanks

Linc

[AllegroD]

It does not matter whether you have 30 or 50 amp as source. To fully protect your rig, get a 50 amp PI to protect at the highest level you can use. If you buy a 30 and have 50 amp power at the post, you will not be able to protect your rig. Then get a 50 - 30 amp adapter for the times you have 30 amp pole.

[otrfun]

SoundGuy wrote:
Nonsense ... I'm not "suggesting" anything, I merely pointed out that the statement one "cannot hard wire a 30 amp protector in a TT with 50 amp service" is TECHNICALLY incorrect. How this rig may be used subsequently, whether another A/C may be added later is another issue, just as it would if a portable 30 amp EMS was being used and the owner wanted to run dual A/Cs. Regardless, the point is moot as the OP has already said he's chosen to install a 50 amp hard wire EMS. NO confusion here whatsoever.

No one said you were confused, but I do believe you're failing to take full responsibility for your post.

For those of us who have a good working knowledge of things electrical, yes we understand the "loophole" context of your point, claim, statement---whatever you want to call it.

However, I believe your post came up short for those folks who do not have a good working knowledge of things electrical and do not understand the "loophole" context of the point you're trying to make. I honestly doubt any reputable electrician would ever attempt to hardwire a 30 amp surge/EMS inside a TT with 50 amp service. Can it be done, yes. But, what's the point, outside of proving that something unsafe . . . can work in an unsafe manner.

Based on your statement, "How a rig may be used subsequently . . . is another issue", you seem to imply that safety is secondary to your primary goal of finding a loophole to debate--and win.

Interesting set of priorities to say the least.

[SoundGuy]

Lspangler wrote:
Everything in my trailer works on a 30 amp pedastel.

otrfun wrote:
You cannot hardwire a 30 amp surge protector or EMS in a TT with 50 amp service.

SoundGuy wrote:
Well that's not technically correct.

otrfun wrote:
SoundGuy, your suggestion, as-is, is a safety and fire hazard.

Nonsense ... I'm not "suggesting" anything, I merely pointed out that the statement one "cannot hard wire a 30 amp protector in a TT with 50 amp service" is TECHNICALLY incorrect. How this rig may be used subsequently, whether another A/C may be added later is another issue, just as it would if a portable 30 amp EMS was being used and the owner wanted to run dual A/Cs. Regardless, the point is moot as the OP has already said he's chosen to install a 50 amp hard wire EMS. :B NO confusion here whatsoever. 😉

[SoundGuy]

Lspangler wrote:
I’m goi g to pick up a 50 amp hardwire ems today

Just be aware that when Progressive Industries was sold last year they also changed their previous "lifetime warranty" to a new, reworded Limited Lifetime Warranty that contains restrictions the previous did not. Most particularly is the clause regarding the installation of a hard wire EMS which must now be done by a "qualified RV dealer", meaning if you do it yourself the warranty is automatically void. 😞

[wa8yxm]

50 amp cord 50 amp protector.. Progressive Industries HW-50c is first recommendation (hard wired) PT-50c (portable) is the other one.

[Bumpyroad]

SoundGuy wrote:


Your post is not clear because that "$250 device" is not described as a "surge protector" but rather an electrical management system. Whether buying a surge protector only is a waste of $$ depends on what the goal is - used correctly a surge protector alone can be exactly what one wants. In the OP's case, based on the incomplete information he's provided, he wants an EMS ... unfortunately because we don't know exactly how he'd use it no one can say definitively whether he'd be better off with a 30 amp or 50 amp version or whether it should be portable or hard wire.

I believe that one of the companies evens markets this device as a Surge Guard. still confused?
bumpy

[Bumpyroad]

otrfun wrote:
SoundGuy, your suggestion, as-is, is a safety and fire hazard.

Tell me what happens when the OP, or a subsequent owner, decides they want to install a 2nd a/c and run all their appliances at the same time, and connect one end of a 50 amp cord into this TT, and the other into a 50 amp pedestal---forgetting, or not knowing, about the 30 amp surge protector or EMS lurking inside their TT?

If the OP were to follow your suggestion, he MUST also remove the 50 amp connector on the outside of his TT and install a 30 amp connector as a failsafe device. Without this critical step, your suggestion potentially places the OP, and any subsequent owner, in potential peril.

careful, you might confuse sG
bumpy

[otrfun]

SoundGuy wrote:

Lspangler wrote:
Everything in my trailer works on a 30 amp pedastel.

otrfun wrote:
You cannot hardwire a 30 amp surge protector or EMS in a TT with 50 amp service.

Well that's not technically correct. When one uses a 30 amp male > 50 amp female dogbone to plug a rig wired with 50 amp service into a campsite 30 amp source that dogbone applies the 30 amp's single hot line to both hot lines of the 50 amp service. This being the case there's no reason one couldn't also hard wire a 30 amp EMS into a rig with 50 amp service in the same manner. That said, if the OP's rig truly is wired with 50 amp service then I'd agree - ante up for a 50 amp EMS, whether portable or hard wire, and properly protect both phases of the trailer's 50 amp service. Unfortunately the OP hasn't clearly explained exactly how he manages to use a 30 amp main service cable with his 50 amp rig - pics would be helpful so we know precisely where the 50 amp > 30 amp conversion is occurring.

SoundGuy, your suggestion, as-is, is a safety and fire hazard.

Tell me what happens when the OP, or a subsequent owner, decides they want to install a 2nd a/c and run all their appliances at the same time, and connect one end of a 50 amp cord into this TT, and the other into a 50 amp pedestal---forgetting, or not knowing, about the 30 amp surge protector or EMS lurking inside their TT?

If the OP were to follow your suggestion, he MUST also remove the 50 amp connector on the outside of his TT and install a 30 amp connector as a failsafe device. Without this critical step, your suggestion potentially places the OP, and any subsequent owner, in potential peril.

[fj12ryder]

SoundGuy wrote:
"Surge Guard" is / was the branded name of a series of EMS w/surge protection products manufactured by Technology Research LLC while Progressive Industries is the name of the company itself that manufactures a variety of surge protector / EMS units for the RV industry. I say "is / was" because I notice TRC no longer shows any surge protectors / EMS units as part of their product line ... maybe they're getting out of that business segment. :h
...

That's really strange about SurgeGuard. They're still available for purchase, but a person would be crazy to buy one when there appears to be no company support. I wonder what the deal is.

[Lspangler]

Thanks for all the feedback

I’m goi g to pick up a 50 amp hardwire ems today

Linc

[SoundGuy]

Lspangler wrote:
My plan is to buy a proggressive industries EMS. Not a huge difference wether I buy 50 or 30 amp version

I use a 50 amp female to 30 amp male at the side of my trailer. Then 30 amp cords exclusively. I see now they sell 25ft cords with 50A female and 30A male ends

OK, so now we're getting somewhere. 🙂 So - the reason "everything works" on 30 amp service is that 50 amp female > 30 amp male dogbone you're using on the side of your trailer applies the single hot leg provided by 30 amp campsite service to both hot legs of your 50 amp rig, the caveat being you're limited to a maximum of 30 amps rather than 100 amps (2 legs x 50 amps each).



If you buy a portable EMS and want to plug it into 30 amp service then the most obvious choice is to buy a 30 amp EMS ... however, if you'd prefer a hard wire version which would be wired in inside the trailer then a 50 amp version would be the logical choice. Yes, you could buy 50 amp portable version and dogbone it to make your connections but that seems to me to be a lot of unnecessary fussing around when installing a 50 amp hard wire to me would seem to be the most logical approach with a rig wired with 50 amp service.

[Lspangler]

My plan is to buy a proggressive industries EMS. Not a huge difference wether I buy 50 or 30 amp version

I use a 50 amp female to 30 amp male at the side of my trailer. Then 30 amp cords exclusively. I see now they sell 25ft cords with 50A female and 30A male ends

Most new trailers come with a 50 A cord if prepped for second AC. I have 2 breakers labeled air conditioner. On a 30 A cord, my whole rig works.

[SoundGuy]

Bumpyroad wrote:
whatever you buy, be sure it is a MULTI function surge protector, $250 and up, not the $90 special.

SoundGuy wrote:
Which will only further confuse the OP :R - what you're calling a "MULTI function surge protector" is actually an EMS (Electrical Management System) that includes surge protection as just one of it's functions. If he goes looking for a "surge protector" then that's all he'll get - surge protection without the additional features of an EMS. In other words, if you want a dog and not a cat then the distinction between the two is critical. 😛

Progressive Industries Surge Protector / EMS w/Surge Protection Comparison Chart

Bumpyroad wrote:
I think my post was clear, don't P__s away $90 on a surge protector. you can't buy a decent one at that price. you can confuse the OP with electro babble as you choose. the main thing is plan to spend $250 and up for a decent "device".

Your post is not clear because that "$250 device" is not described as a "surge protector" but rather an electrical management system. Whether buying a surge protector only is a waste of $$ depends on what the goal is - used correctly a surge protector alone can be exactly what one wants. In the OP's case, based on the incomplete information he's provided, he wants an EMS ... unfortunately because we don't know exactly how he'd use it no one can say definitively whether he'd be better off with a 30 amp or 50 amp version or whether it should be portable or hard wire.

[Bumpyroad]

SoundGuy wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:
whatever you buy, be sure it is a MULTI function surge protector, $250 and up, not the $90 special.

Which will only further confuse the OP :R - what you're calling a "MULTI function surge protector" is actually an EMS (Electrical Management System) that includes surge protection as just one of it's functions. If he goes looking for a "surge protector" then that's all he'll get - surge protection without the additional features of an EMS. In other words, if you want a dog and not a cat then the distinction between the two is critical. 😛

Progressive Industries Surge Protector / EMS w/Surge Protection Comparison Chart

I think my post was clear, don't P__s away $90 on a surge protector. you can't buy a decent one at that price. you can confuse the OP with electro babble as you choose. the main thing is plan to spend $250 and up for a decent "device".

bumpy