Why can't I get a TRUE Deep cycle battery anymore?

[pjw73nh]

As the title says. Why can't I get a true deep cycle battery any more? I suppose I could get a $250+ high end one (Optima/Trojan etc), but I am looking in the sub $150 range. I use my trailer 6 times a year and pay close attention to battery maintenance. I consider them disposable after 3-4 years.

I used to be able to get them at Walmart/Sams/Autozone etc... Now all they offer is is deep cycle RV/Marine batteries.

I don't need the starting power or vibration resistance of a marine battery. I want a reasonably priced TRUE DEEP CYCLE NON MARINE battery.

[ktmrfs]

pjw73nh wrote:
BFL13. All of my camping is dry camping. No AC available. I guess I don't have a specific number of AH. But I'd like to be able to go 4-5 nights parked without dropping down so far that the refer starts to reset. I believe it needs min 9.75vdc to run on LP for the control circuits. I have a WFCO converter that I converted to a PD 4655 switching PS, a non-mounted, 100 watt, Renogy Mono-Crystalline solar that I relocate throughout the day to achieve best sun. No permanent generator. I do carry a Honda 3k on the trips where I expect to experience extreme temps for the few hours I need it, but I dislike carrying it and the fuel for it. All my lights have been converted to LED. I am very conservative in my use of the water pump. Hardly ever use the heater or hot water (DSI). The one luxury I indulge in is the Fantastic fan. I like to run it on 1 or 2 all day long. I do need to run a CPAP for 6-8 hours per night. Draws between 35 and 90 watts depending on the settings.

LWiddis, Thank you. I'll look into the Trojans, though I think they may still be a little more than I need. But I can be convinced.

Dessert Capt. Thanks. I've got a good B+ close by and I have a VERY good relationship with them (business). I am really fond of Interstates (I use them in my cars).

JPlante. Tnx for the reply. I like the idea of 2 GC2s but as I mentioned, I don't think I have the room on the trailer A frame to mount them. Too wide for two.

KTMRFS, Thanks for taking the time to reply. I don't know your camping habits, but I wonder if perhaps you and I are very different. We NEVER camp where there is power. The only power we ever get is when leaving home fully charged, charging while driving (minimal), and solar. Occasionally we will stay with friends for a day and plug in. Most of our trips are 4-5 days of boondocking. The only thing that ever came close to lasting for us was my 2 GC2 setup. As I said it lasted 4-5 years and then we sold the trailer with them still performing pretty well. I have to think that if you're getting these extreme liftimes out of your batteries, you may be spending way more time (revolving your life around) battery maintenance. I don't know this, and I'm not judging. I do know that I will put a reasonable effort into maintaining my batteries, but I am not going to devote a major effort to it. I've been into RVs for 30 years, have a pretty good electro-mechanical knowledge of all RV systems and for the 8,10,12,15 years of life, with the deep discharges you are claiming, I have to say in all my RV time, I've never heard of such great results. I hope to learn your secrets. Thank you.

we camp about half the time boondocking. That said, which is still between 40 and 60 days each year boondocking, often with no power for between 5 and 10 days. Before solar my batteries would get down to 25 to 40 percent or so SOC before I would run the generator. get them up to 80 percent or so and repeat. then when home fully recharge them. We have LED lights, and conserve reasonably, but still DW does run the microwave off the inverter to reheat tea, cook veggies etc. we run the fans as needed, and the furnace as needed.

Hint, a panasonic true inverter microwave doesn't cycle between full and 0 power, but holds a constant variable power, so I dial it back to a 50 percent cycle and it draws about 900VA and runs fine off a 1000VA inverter and 4 GC. Don't try this with 2 GC. voltage drop from battery internal resistance kills you, and will shut the inverter down at much below 80 percent SOC.

Looking at the charts posted above 500 cycles to 25 percent SOC on a pair of trojan golf carts is well within reason, and actually less than stated cycle life

But there are at least several things you must do
1) never, ever, let the battery water level go below the plates
2) get them FULLY charged ASAP when returning home. and even the PD charger really doesn't get them fully charged, you need to get them up to about 14.8V, which the old Black and Decker charger would do
3) equalize them occasionally, once a year or so.
4) keep them charged when in storage, either charging them as needed, trickle charge, or on a solar charger.

do all this and IMHO age will be what ends up being the end of life, not cycles. but you should still be able to get 8 to 10 years IMHO out a a pair of trojan GC, but it does take some additional attention.

I monitor battery SOC with a trimetric meter,


Now that I have plenty of solar, the latest set sees less deep discharges, but still get them in cloudy days and/or in campgrounds with lots of trees that keep even portable panels from daily long sun exposure.

If you can't fit the GC, consider the trojan 12V deep discharge. The drawback is that they really are best used down to 50 percent SOC or so, and even then have lower cycle life than the GC. But from the spec's it looks like they will take plenty of cycles down to 25 percent and still give decent life.

Upside is that they are much better for high current loads if you want to run an inverter and microwave.

[landyacht318]

Funny thread.

One can pretentd that group 27s of many moons ago were deep cycle, and that th group 27s of today are dual purpose, but the only likely difference is the sticker, and the mnarketing department that decided term X vs term Y would yield X amount more profit

True deep cycle in the group 27 size? Even trojans group 27 is rated at only half the cycles of the T-1275/J 150.

Does not matter at 18 cycles a year though, either way. The charging and float voltage, if left plugged in, would have more of an effect on longevity than whether one buys wally worlds cheapest 27 or trojans top quality marine/deep cycle.

Those cycling deep hard and heavy and can recharge properly, promptly and fully, can realize the benefits from actual deep cycle construction. at 18 cycles per year and only a few years expected, you can get a starting battery and carry 10 less pounds there and back every few years.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/deep_cycle_battery&page=1

[Crazy_Ray]

CROWN 235. Just got 4 SIX volts 105 each

[Jim2007]

Hi.. I get 4 to 5 years out of my deep cycle batteries. During the winter months I remove the battery from the trailer and put it on trickle charge in the garage. Also check water level to insure plates are covered... Jim2007

[pickjare]

Op, our family dry camps 4 days at a time. Idaho, so mornings regularly in the 40's. We run the furnace an hour or so a day. I have no solar or generator. You mentioned a fridge you use that runs off batteries, mine is standard RV fridge uses propane. My point is our camping styles are similar. I researched batteries a ton, found much help on this forum. If your looking online they are expensive because of shipping a 70 lb item. So go to a real RV center (not Walmart) you should find dedicated RV batteries there. True deep cycle, golf cart type batteries readily available for around $149. Trojan has a dealer locator link on their website, use it to find one near you.

Just because Walmart and auto zone sell multipurpose starting/RV type with CCA ratings doesn't mean there still isn't a need for deep cycle type batteries. These aren't something you purchase online though.

[marcsbigfoot20b]

I bought 3 Duracell platinum AGM 12 volt batteries at sams club for $178 each.
I'm pretty sure it's the best bang for the buck in 12 volt "deep cycle" AGM.
Decent specs, made in USA by East Penn.

[azrving]

"I guess I don't have a specific number of AH. But I'd like to be able to go 4-5 nights parked without dropping down so far that the refer starts to reset. I believe it needs min 9.75vdc to run on LP for the control circuits"

This may be part of your problem along with are they being fully charged. It seems you could get more life than that. I run four gp 27 in a string for a 48 volt pontoon boat and they are 2008, 2009, 2012 2015. They are charged to 15.2 volts all the time. 6 or 7 months out of the year they just sit with a battery minder and a timer.

Does your solar controller have adjustable voltage? If you go to something like a Trojan they suggest 14.8 v daily charge.

[SoundGuy]

pjw73nh wrote:
Most of our trips are 4-5 days of boondocking. The only thing that ever came close to lasting for us was my 2 GC2 setup. As I said it lasted 4-5 years and then we sold the trailer with them still performing pretty well.

If a pair of GC-2s worked well for you before why can't GC-2s still serve your needs well? :h If a pair won't fit on the trailer tongue as is, make 'em fit - geez, a pair of GC-2s aren't that big - same footprint as a pair of G24s, just a bit taller. Seems to me the answer is right in front of you - but hey, I'm not the "expert" some here are. :R

[kerrlakeRoo]

pjw73nh wrote:
BFL13. All of my camping is dry camping. No AC available. I guess I don't have a specific number of AH. But I'd like to be able to go 4-5 nights parked without dropping down so far that the refer starts to reset. I believe it needs min 9.75vdc to run on LP for the control circuits. I have a WFCO converter that I converted to a PD 4655 switching PS, a non-mounted, 100 watt, Renogy Mono-Crystalline solar that I relocate throughout the day to achieve best sun. No permanent generator. I do carry a Honda 3k on the trips where I expect to experience extreme temps for the few hours I need it, but I dislike carrying it and the fuel for it. All my lights have been converted to LED. I am very conservative in my use of the water pump. Hardly ever use the heater or hot water (DSI). The one luxury I indulge in is the Fantastic fan. I like to run it on 1 or 2 all day long. I do need to run a CPAP for 6-8 hours per night. Draws between 35 and 90 watts depending on the settings.

LWiddis, Thank you. I'll look into the Trojans, though I think they may still be a little more than I need. But I can be convinced.

Dessert Capt. Thanks. I've got a good B+ close by and I have a VERY good relationship with them (business). I am really fond of Interstates (I use them in my cars).

JPlante. Tnx for the reply. I like the idea of 2 GC2s but as I mentioned, I don't think I have the room on the trailer A frame to mount them. Too wide for two.

KTMRFS, Thanks for taking the time to reply. I don't know your camping habits, but I wonder if perhaps you and I are very different. We NEVER camp where there is power. The only power we ever get is when leaving home fully charged, charging while driving (minimal), and solar. Occasionally we will stay with friends for a day and plug in. Most of our trips are 4-5 days of boondocking. The only thing that ever came close to lasting for us was my 2 GC2 setup. As I said it lasted 4-5 years and then we sold the trailer with them still performing pretty well. I have to think that if you're getting these extreme liftimes out of your batteries, you may be spending way more time (revolving your life around) battery maintenance. I don't know this, and I'm not judging. I do know that I will put a reasonable effort into maintaining my batteries, but I am not going to devote a major effort to it. I've been into RVs for 30 years, have a pretty good electro-mechanical knowledge of all RV systems and for the 8,10,12,15 years of life, with the deep discharges you are claiming, I have to say in all my RV time, I've never heard of such great results. I hope to learn your secrets. Thank you.

How about a single 12 volt deep cycle Duracell offering 228 amp hrs. 15" long by 7" wide for under $300
Batteries + scrubber battery
SLI12V215s
Or if you want cheaper SLI31mdc 105 amp hr $120

[SoundGuy]

Desert Captain wrote:
All batteries have a planned obsolescence of 3 years. Anytime you get 3 years of reliable service from ANY battery, starting or deep cycle, you just got your monies worth, {this from a regional Trojan rep back when I sold batteries for a living}, any additional use is just gravy.

Will some batteries last longer? You betcha! It depends on how and where you use them not to mention how they are maintained. Are the people on this and other Forums who claim to have gotten 12+ years out of their batteries delusional.... You betcha!

Sure glad we have an "expert" here on the forums to confirm what I knew all along - I am close to being delusional. :W My Interstate G27 is now 10 yrs old and still going strong. :B Only 3 yrs? - hogwash. :R

[pjw73nh]

BFL13. All of my camping is dry camping. No AC available. I guess I don't have a specific number of AH. But I'd like to be able to go 4-5 nights parked without dropping down so far that the refer starts to reset. I believe it needs min 9.75vdc to run on LP for the control circuits. I have a WFCO converter that I converted to a PD 4655 switching PS, a non-mounted, 100 watt, Renogy Mono-Crystalline solar that I relocate throughout the day to achieve best sun. No permanent generator. I do carry a Honda 3k on the trips where I expect to experience extreme temps for the few hours I need it, but I dislike carrying it and the fuel for it. All my lights have been converted to LED. I am very conservative in my use of the water pump. Hardly ever use the heater or hot water (DSI). The one luxury I indulge in is the Fantastic fan. I like to run it on 1 or 2 all day long. I do need to run a CPAP for 6-8 hours per night. Draws between 35 and 90 watts depending on the settings.

LWiddis, Thank you. I'll look into the Trojans, though I think they may still be a little more than I need. But I can be convinced.

Dessert Capt. Thanks. I've got a good B+ close by and I have a VERY good relationship with them (business). I am really fond of Interstates (I use them in my cars).

JPlante. Tnx for the reply. I like the idea of 2 GC2s but as I mentioned, I don't think I have the room on the trailer A frame to mount them. Too wide for two.

KTMRFS, Thanks for taking the time to reply. I don't know your camping habits, but I wonder if perhaps you and I are very different. We NEVER camp where there is power. The only power we ever get is when leaving home fully charged, charging while driving (minimal), and solar. Occasionally we will stay with friends for a day and plug in. Most of our trips are 4-5 days of boondocking. The only thing that ever came close to lasting for us was my 2 GC2 setup. As I said it lasted 4-5 years and then we sold the trailer with them still performing pretty well. I have to think that if you're getting these extreme liftimes out of your batteries, you may be spending way more time (revolving your life around) battery maintenance. I don't know this, and I'm not judging. I do know that I will put a reasonable effort into maintaining my batteries, but I am not going to devote a major effort to it. I've been into RVs for 30 years, have a pretty good electro-mechanical knowledge of all RV systems and for the 8,10,12,15 years of life, with the deep discharges you are claiming, I have to say in all my RV time, I've never heard of such great results. I hope to learn your secrets. Thank you.

[time2roll]

Anything good costs more money. GC2 is probably your best bet.
Some Sam's and Costco have these.

[theoldwizard1]

Lwiddis wrote:
Trojan T105s and T125s are not in the $250+ range.

T1275 are one of the best GC12 sized, 12V, deep cycle batteries you can get, but they are very close to $250.

OP - You just have to figure out how to mount 2 GC6 batteries.

[ktmrfs]

Desert Captain wrote:
Not a problem.... A true deep cycle battery is readily available and in a Group 27 you should pay well under $150. The Big Box stores will probably not carry a true deep cycle 12 volt.

All batteries have a planned obsolescence of 3 years. Anytime you get 3 years of reliable service from ANY battery, starting or deep cycle, you just got your monies worth, {this from a regional Trojan rep back when I sold batteries for a living}, any additional use is just gravy.

Will some batteries last longer? You betcha! It depends on how and where you use them not to mention how they are maintained. Are the people on this and other Forums who claim to have gotten 12+ years out of their batteries delusional.... You betcha!

I got my Interstate Group 27's about a year ago, pure deep cycle, for $100 a piece at Batteries Plus. These replaced identical 4 year old interstates which still worked but were definitely getting tired.

If Batteries Plus has them so do a lot of other retailers. Try your local Interstate or Trojan dealers if there are no Batteries Plus outlets in your area.

:C

first, trojan makes deep cycle 12V batteries. not as many cycles as a GC but still deep discharge. like a good deep cycle, they don't have the low internal resistance of marine/starting batteries, but lower internal resistance than a GC. Still good for 100's of cycles to under 50 percent SOC.

as for the 3 year life, I call BS. my last 4 car batteries all lasted 10 years or more, two if them pushing 15 years.

My first set of GC batteries after 10 years and close to 400 discharges down to 25 percent SOC went to the in laws, and now after 14 years are near end of life.

my current set of 4 GC batteries are nearing 8 years old, and see around 50 or more discharges to 25 percent SOC every year, and another dozen or more to 50 percent or less.

and my experience isn't unique. Of the dozen or more folks we camp with regularly, the others have batteries lasting between 8 and 12 years. and this is with pretty regular camping during the year.

abuse them, well all bets are off. reasonable care, you can get long life.

[kerrlakeRoo]

They are available, depending on where you look. Mass market retailers (hellMart, auto parts chains etc) carry what they can move the quickest. They want to make their $5 or $10 from you and move on to the next. If you want true deep cycle look to speciality outlets. Batteries+ sells a line of scrubber batteries that are deep cycle with great recharge capabilities.