Would Higher Octane Run the Gen Better? UPDATE

[BFL13]

UPDATE 21 Nov page 5

Ongoing saga with my 1700w (continuous) gen trying to run my 75 amp charger at 75 amps. Briggs and Stratton P2200 gen.

Previously posted that it would not (flashing overload red light), then discovered I still had it choked. Next test was to run it with the batteries full, but with an inverter draw of 127 amps, then turn on the charger, but now with the gen choke in the right place. Amps now -52 so 127 minus 52 = 75 amps from the converter/charger. No flashing overload light on gen. So I reported success.

Just been camping off grid, did a recharge with the gen and the 75 amper. No red light at first. 75 amps to battery bank. Then after a few minutes the red light started flashing but gen kept running.(It can shut off with overload.) Switched to the 55 amp charger and no red light.

We know that running a charger as a power supply is easier than doing an actual battery recharge due to the higher battery resistance. Sometimes it can do its full amps as a power supply, but might not be able to do its full amps on the battery. BUT--I thought that if it did its 75 amps as supply that was the same effort as doing 75 amps on a battery.

Here, 75 amps on battery seems to take more effort from the charger than doing supply, so needs more from the generator? 75 is not the same 75?

Also there is some relationship between the generator engine running and the power output, as seen when it was choked and did less 120v power. I am wondering if the gen would run the 75 amper without the flashing overload light if only the engine ran a little "better" (not sure what I mean by that in what the engine would have to do) More revs?

The manual mentions engine getting bogged down with too much load-I did not hear it running slower.

So finally after all that background--would the engine do "better" if it ran on higher octane gasoline? It has 87 now (regular). And if it did, would that make the difference to output power I need where I am just on the edge for running that 75 amper?

Engine is 6.77 cu-in(111 cc), 4500 revs single-cylinder, revolving field, wants 87 octane minimum below 2500 ft altitude.

I will not have an opportunity to try that for a while, so I am asking here to learn if it is worth trying at all. Thanks.

[BFL13]

bighatnohorse wrote:
Before you all go. . .drain the gas and fill it with Top Tier high octane gas.
Its not hard and pretty straight forward.
For what its worth, I always use high octane gas in all small engines and never have a problem. Longest non-use time period was two years for a small engine weed wacker and it still started and ran.

I haven't given up yet, but need to re-group and review what has come up in this thread.

I am not happy with the idea the converter requires more VA as the battery voltage rises, for instance. I can test for that over a longer recharge time from a lower SOC.

Also my AGMs have a higher voltage per SOC than my previous Flooded bank did when I first took the Kill-A-Watt measurements for this 75 amper from my Honda 3000. Now a different gen and with AGMs, but same converter. More work needed on all that.

I can still try to reduce the load by using a lower gauge wire from gen to converter. Now using #12, but can rig a shorter #10

I didn't try a small resistive load to go with an inductive load as was suggested. I saw that same trick in my old Vector MSW inverter's manual as a suggestion for if it is struggling with an inductive load.

Problem there might be it just adds more load. I think the issue now is the load is just over, so we are playing with small amounts whether the red flashing light comes on or not.

And yes, I still have not tried higher octane gas or synthetic oil.

Have to arrange testing these in a way that is one at a time so if it does work, I can tell what did it. Anyway, it is not all going to happen in the next five minutes, so I will be back sometime if I have anything to report.

[bighatnohorse]

Before you all go. . .drain the gas and fill it with Top Tier high octane gas.
Its not hard and pretty straight forward.
For what its worth, I always use high octane gas in all small engines and never have a problem. Longest non-use time period was two years for a small engine weed wacker and it still started and ran.

[CapnCampn]

I'll move to a new topic since it's not exactly the same... but to answer MrWizard's question, it's just the electric heaters directly into the generator via an extension cord, Kill-a-watt & a power strip. No RV or house involved.

Here's the new thread:
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29792604/p/1.cfm

[MrWizard]

CapnCampn

is this IN the RV ? or at the stick house (emg power)

what else is on besides the heaters ? converter ? fridge ?

do you plug the heaters directly into the generator, and NOT plug in the RV ?

[BFL13]

That's ok, this thread has run out unless somebody has a P2200 and can see or not see the same as I get with the red flashing light.

Thanks for the suggestion on a different load for testing. Your heater's actual draw would have to be measured vs the rating to compare with the gen's

[CapnCampn]

Just a thought, after reading several of the recent tech issues threads - could the Harbor freight Carbon Pile load tester be of use in this situation?

i.e. hook it up to the battery as a 75A load - then you wouldn't need to run the batteries down as low for your testing.

a) this may be the same as your microwave test
b) the carbon pile tester may not handle 75A for long periods of time - It says to run short tests (15 sec), but at lower amps can it be run longer without damage?

I've got a similar issue - a champion 3500/4000W non-inverter that bogs/dies when I run 2 1500W electric heaters on it. I'll open a new thread on that sometime - I don't want to hijack this one.

[BFL13]

I see in the Honda EU2200i manual, that it does have a red "blinking" overload light situation, which means there is "an abnormal in the inverter" and to take it to a service tech.

Nothing about that in the manual for my generator, and mine seems to be working properly for 120v output. (So no change in plan)
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Only thing I wish my gen had is a fuel gauge. I haven't tried it, but I suppose you could remove the gas filter screen and use a home-made dip stick. I found the fuel gauge in the Honda 3000 we had to be very useful.

Honda says with theirs, if you keep overloading it big time it will damage it, and if you keep overloading it just a little, it will shorten its service life.

If we use the P2200 gen in our usual camping way, it might get a two or three hour run once a month for six months of the year October-March so that is 18 hours a year. (Solar does it in the other months)

It will have stabilizer in the gas most of the time in that scenario, or else it would just sit there with old gas in it most of the time.

[DrewE]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
"But I don't think it will make any difference, regarding the load alert"

Yup a low Hz alert would be irrational.

For an inverter generator, a low Hz alert would indeed be rather irrational, since the output frequency is in no way directly tied to the engine RPM (but rather the presumably quartz crystal based timebase of the inverter circuit). That's kind of the whole point of the inverter generators, in that they permit the engine speed to be varied depending on load, thus saving fuel and at low load levels being quieter.

[BFL13]

I should repeat that the manual says nothing about the red flashing light, just the actual circuit breaker and solid red light. I asked B&S tech support about it, and they didn't know anything about it. Speculation it was something wrong with my particular gen.

My Honda 3000 didn't do that. If it got overloaded it just popped the breaker and a red light came on while the engine kept running.

I am going with the red flashing light being an early warning since it comes on at 1700VA. Can't be a coincidence that is the continuous rating.

I can ask at an "approved" repair shop if they have seen that if I remember. Whatever, I am going to run that 75 amper from it as required and see how it goes.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

"But I don't think it will make any difference, regarding the load alert"

Yup a low Hz alert would be irrational.

[BFL13]

I can see the value in Mr Wiz's Super Watt ammo box thing. I can't use my Kill-A-Watt to see how many VA it does take to pop this gen's breaker. I could just get that 1700VA as it is before the Kill-A-Watt was maxed when amps rose to 15 as voltage fell.

So I am just guessing there is a ways to go above 1700 before the actual overload limit is reached and it pops the breaker. Mr Wiz could use his "box of tricks" and know for sure. Or is that in a bag?

https://www.google.ca/search?q=bag+of+tricks+Kat&biw=1093&bih=470&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=np1K...

[MrWizard]

If The engine isn't bogging
Changing gas isn't going to do anything
The load sense is electronic
It's not going to let you go over 1700va load
Better gas may help the engine
But I don't think it will make any difference, regarding the load alert

[BFL13]

bighatnohorse wrote:
Why haven't you run a few tank fulls of high octane to find out?

RV is in backyard with full batteries, and have a full tank of fresh 87 in the gen. Big chore to organize a test like that with different gas in the gen. (Have to run the batteries down too so they will accept 75 amps) I will try a tank of fresh higher octane next time I need gas for the gen and the batteries need recharging just to see.

That would be most likely next year! 🙂

[bighatnohorse]

Why haven't you run a few tank fulls of high octane to find out?

[BFL13]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Can you even get gasoline free of alcohol on the island?

Don't know for sure. Till recently the 91 octane was, but that might have changed lately, based on some Googling I did. I didn't check into it any further.

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The owner's manual says in several places not to overload the gen or it can be damaged. It does not explain how you can overload the gen if the circuit breaker will pop every time you try to.

I am going with the idea you should avoid getting close to popping the breaker, and that my 1700VA measurement says it is "just over" and not too close so it will do any harm. Time will tell!