2023 Power Stroke vs 2023 Ram Cummins Towing Challenge

[FishOnOne]

Ford: Better towing acceleration, better performance, better fuel economy, less squat

Ram: Better exhaust brake, good ride quality.

Looks like the 6 speed vs 10 speed discussion has been exposed in this video.

Enjoy...

Link

This evaluation was performed by a Ram owner.

[4x4ord]

^^^^The guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. The 68RFE could have dropped to 4th gear at 2000 rpm. That would have caused the engine to rev to 2440 rpm where it would have made enough power to quickly get up to speed…. then it could have upshifted back to 5th where it may or may not have been able to maintain 110 km per hour.
So, instead, it stayed in fifth at about 3 mph under the cruise control set point and slowly gained speed. I don’t see that as a bad thing.

[Cummins12V98]

4x4ord wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
^^^You can call it programming or whatever but it comes down to power. I don't know what grade the hill was that he was pulling but to pull a 14,000 lb trailer up a steep hill at 110 kph takes a lot of power. He was comparing a 385 HP Ram to a 500 HP Ford.... and he says it didn't pull as well on account of the 6 speed transmission,:S.

OK, explain why he had only 22psi boost?

I think he said 24 psi boost at one point. At 2000 rpm the standard output Cummins is not tuned to produce a whole lot of torque ….. no more than the 850 lbft peak torque it makes at 1800 rpm. Does the Cummins need more than 24 psi boost to make 320 hp at 2000 rpm?

The thing is the standard output Cummins is only able to produce about 320 Hp at 2000 rpm and he’s comparing that to a high output Powerstroke that should be able to produce about 420 Hp at 1900 rpm.

Supposedly if it downshifted it would be redline??? I highly doubt that from to 2k to 3.2k.

Something does not sound right about all this. I am NOT disputing the FORD has much more power but.....

[4x4ord]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
^^^You can call it programming or whatever but it comes down to power. I don't know what grade the hill was that he was pulling but to pull a 14,000 lb trailer up a steep hill at 110 kph takes a lot of power. He was comparing a 385 HP Ram to a 500 HP Ford.... and he says it didn't pull as well on account of the 6 speed transmission,:S.

OK, explain why he had only 22psi boost?

I think he said 24 psi boost at one point. At 2000 rpm the standard output Cummins is not tuned to produce a whole lot of torque ….. no more than the 850 lbft peak torque it makes at 1800 rpm. Does the Cummins need more than 24 psi boost to make 320 hp at 2000 rpm?

The thing is the standard output Cummins is only able to produce about 320 Hp at 2000 rpm and he’s comparing that to a high output Powerstroke that should be able to produce about 420 Hp at 1900 rpm.

[Grit_dog]

blt2ski wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

Me Again wrote:
At my age(will complete my 8th decade on the planet next June) I am slowly deciding that being the first to the top of the hill is not that important anymore.

Nothing wrong with that...

Considering how many times I have stalled out in first gear blowing up transmissions thru the last 40 years of towing.......I'm happy to get to the top of the hill at any speed! Especially the steeper grades here in puget sound that get upwards of 30% in grade.

Being to top heavy in power vs nothing at the bottom is not good either. Best if the truck you drive has the proper low gearing for low speed maneuvers, and HP for freeway hauling when and if you do a lot of that. Otherwise, you have the wrong tool!

Marty

But your experiences, at least everything you’ve communicated here, have been solely with much weaker all around powertrains. And virtually antiques by todays standards.

[FishOnOne]

JaxDad wrote:

Me Again wrote:
At my age(will complete my 8th decade on the planet next June) I am slowly deciding that being the first to the top of the hill is not that important anymore.

As a kid learning to drive trucks one of the very first thing the ‘old guys’ taught me was “Don’t chase the governor! It’s hard on the truck & the driver.”. Those words have served me very well over the decades since.

Ontario is pretty flat in this area, just some slow rolling hills and pretty gentle grades, but this is such a massive place that if you venture further out you certainly get into some serious grades.

Generally the only ‘mountains’ that I have to run through, although I can mostly go around them, are the Appalachians on the frequent north / south runs.

In my own rig I’ve found the ‘sweet spot’ is about 68 mph (110 km/h) and if I can hit the bottom of the hill at that speed or a smidge more it makes a huge difference in how much speed bleeds of in climbing the grade. I figure everyone else is in the same boat and we’ll all get the lost speed back on the downhill run after cresting.

Or don't lug the engine

[Bionic_Man]

The RAM 2500 is down considerably on power vs the other two 2500 diesels. Not sure why it would be a surprise that it would be outperformed in a towing test.

RAM does need an upgrade in transmissions so that they can put the HO engine in their 2500s.

[Cummins12V98]

4x4ord wrote:
^^^You can call it programming or whatever but it comes down to power. I don't know what grade the hill was that he was pulling but to pull a 14,000 lb trailer up a steep hill at 110 kph takes a lot of power. He was comparing a 385 HP Ram to a 500 HP Ford.... and he says it didn't pull as well on account of the 6 speed transmission,:S.

OK, explain why he had only 22psi boost?

[FishOnOne]

IdaD wrote:

Me Again wrote:
At my age(will complete my 8th decade on the planet next June) I am slowly deciding that being the first to the top of the hill is not that important anymore.

I'm half your age and think speed up a hill towing among any of the diesels has been a draw for at least a decade now, if not more. The exhaust brake is an area Ford and GM can still meaningfully improve, imo.

To me speed equates to towing performance or said another way towing comfortably. Like I always said... Towing Got Easier :B

[4x4ord]

^^^You can call it programming or whatever but it comes down to power. I don't know what grade the hill was that he was pulling but to pull a 14,000 lb trailer up a steep hill at 110 kph takes a lot of power. He was comparing a 385 HP Ram to a 500 HP Ford.... and he says it didn't pull as well on account of the 6 speed transmission,:S.

[Cummins12V98]

22psi "FULL", I don't think so. No wonder it did not maintain 68mph. It's all about programming, it could have delivered 30psi if the computer allowed and maintained speed. Trans had little to do with this as he was in high enough rpm's to pull well.

For a couple mph loss I will stick with total control of my load on descent.

[Cummins12V98]

lawnspecialties wrote:

IdaD wrote:

Me Again wrote:
At my age(will complete my 8th decade on the planet next June) I am slowly deciding that being the first to the top of the hill is not that important anymore.

I'm half your age and think speed up a hill towing among any of the diesels has been a draw for at least a decade now, if not more. The exhaust brake is an area Ford and GM can still meaningfully improve, imo.

I agree with you there about the exhaust brake. Ram has always been strong there. But that being said, I have a friend who runs a 2020 SRW F350 with a Jayco Pinnacle. He stated on his way down Black Mountain (NC) all he had to do was set the exhaust brake to auto and he never had to touch the brake one time. It held a constant speed all the way down.

I'm not 100% sure how that auto setting operates but whatever he did, I'd be happy with that result.

It all depends on the grade and weight of the RV. My 24k RV plus 1.5k MC trailer and Bike require full EB and setting cruise at lower than desired speed. I can descend any West Coast grade without a single brake application but I need to be in the correct gear for the grade.

[JaxDad]

Me Again wrote:
At my age(will complete my 8th decade on the planet next June) I am slowly deciding that being the first to the top of the hill is not that important anymore.

As a kid learning to drive trucks one of the very first thing the ‘old guys’ taught me was “Don’t chase the governor! It’s hard on the truck & the driver.”. Those words have served me very well over the decades since.

Ontario is pretty flat in this area, just some slow rolling hills and pretty gentle grades, but this is such a massive place that if you venture further out you certainly get into some serious grades.

Generally the only ‘mountains’ that I have to run through, although I can mostly go around them, are the Appalachians on the frequent north / south runs.

In my own rig I’ve found the ‘sweet spot’ is about 68 mph (110 km/h) and if I can hit the bottom of the hill at that speed or a smidge more it makes a huge difference in how much speed bleeds of in climbing the grade. I figure everyone else is in the same boat and we’ll all get the lost speed back on the downhill run after cresting.

[FishOnOne]

lawnspecialties wrote:

IdaD wrote:

Me Again wrote:
At my age(will complete my 8th decade on the planet next June) I am slowly deciding that being the first to the top of the hill is not that important anymore.

I'm half your age and think speed up a hill towing among any of the diesels has been a draw for at least a decade now, if not more. The exhaust brake is an area Ford and GM can still meaningfully improve, imo.

I agree with you there about the exhaust brake. Ram has always been strong there. But that being said, I have a friend who runs a 2020 SRW F350 with a Jayco Pinnacle. He stated on his way down Black Mountain (NC) all he had to do was set the exhaust brake to auto and he never had to touch the brake one time. It held a constant speed all the way down.

I'm not 100% sure how that auto setting operates but whatever he did, I'd be happy with that result.

The "auto" modulates the exhaust break to maintain a specific speed and the "On" position is full exhaust break and try's to slow down the vehicle.

Having said that, the cummins does have the strongest exhaust break.

[lawnspecialties]

IdaD wrote:

Me Again wrote:
At my age(will complete my 8th decade on the planet next June) I am slowly deciding that being the first to the top of the hill is not that important anymore.

I'm half your age and think speed up a hill towing among any of the diesels has been a draw for at least a decade now, if not more. The exhaust brake is an area Ford and GM can still meaningfully improve, imo.

I agree with you there about the exhaust brake. Ram has always been strong there. But that being said, I have a friend who runs a 2020 SRW F350 with a Jayco Pinnacle. He stated on his way down Black Mountain (NC) all he had to do was set the exhaust brake to auto and he never had to touch the brake one time. It held a constant speed all the way down.

I'm not 100% sure how that auto setting operates but whatever he did, I'd be happy with that result.

[IdaD]

Me Again wrote:
At my age(will complete my 8th decade on the planet next June) I am slowly deciding that being the first to the top of the hill is not that important anymore.

I'm half your age and think speed up a hill towing among any of the diesels has been a draw for at least a decade now, if not more. The exhaust brake is an area Ford and GM can still meaningfully improve, imo.