Actual federal weight law rules, some questions and answers

[jmramiller]

I have per the request of a few members, stickied this post. Please note, this is not a place to argue whether a law makes sense or not, just what the laws are. If you have a question about wt laws, that appears to be NOT answered in some way shape or form, please ask, and hopefully some of the ACTUAL weights and measures LEO's will answer, or those with some actual knowledge.

In the mean time, I do thank the OP for starting this thread, altho I have taken the liberty to change the title to one I think and hope will be a bit more informative in name.

marty
TV moderator

Some on this forum suggests that RAWR per the door sticker is legally binding by federal law. Specifically by para f of FMCSA:

(f) Except as provided herein, States may not enforce on the Interstate System vehicle weight limits of less than 20,000 pounds on a single axle, 34,000 pounds on a tandem axle, or the weights derived from the Bridge Formula, up to a maximum of 80,000 pounds, including all enforcement tolerances. States may not limit tire loads to less than 500 pounds per inch of tire or tread width, except that such limits may not be applied to tires on the steering axle. States may not limit steering axle weights to less than 20,000 pounds or the axle rating established by the manufacturer, whichever is lower.

The argument is that the last half of the last sentence "the axle rating established by the manufacturer, whichever is lower." is referring to the door sticker RAWR.

It is my contention that this actually refers to the "steering axle" which according to my English classes is the subject of the sentence. My contention is to find a standard relating to the rear axle in para f you have to refer back to the first sentence:
"States may not enforce on the Interstate System vehicle weight limits of less than 20,000 pounds on a single axle"

I would like to hear from LEO's who might have a comment on this subject. I would also love to hear from anyone who can post a copy of a citation issued for exceeding door sticker weight ratings. A link to the violated code would be nice also.

My only agenda here is to find out what really is and what really is not. I have intentionally omitted the names of those who make these claims because I want this to be about the law not people's claims.

Thanks.

[jmramiller]

JIMNLIN wrote:
(quote=jmramiller)
A direct quote from 10 ton's post " In the case of a private use pickup, it can only be registered for it's Fed label". This is not the only time he contridicts himself in the post. He also states that an insurance claim can be denied for being "overweight" which is absolutely incorrect.
======================================================================
Texas 502 registration regs
(quote)Sec. 502.055. DETERMINATION OF WEIGHT. (a) The weight, net weight, or gross weight of a vehicle, as determined by the department, is the correct weight for registration purposes, regardless of any other purported weight of the vehicle.

(b) The department may require an applicant for registration under this chapter to provide the department with evidence of:

(1) the manufacturer's rated carrying capacity for the vehicle;

(2) the nominal tonnage rating of the vehicle;

(3) the gross weight rating of the vehicle; or

(4) any combination of information described in Subdivisions (1)-(3).



Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. Amended by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 625, Sec. 3, eff. Sept. 1, 1997.

(/quote)

10 ton was correct just as he was about buying more weight for commercial use and private pickup. looks like you need some input from casper or some one that is familiar with your own state of TX registration regs as your knowledge is .... zero. If you knew anything about "commercial insurance" you would know that a violation of FMCSRs can and will lead to insurance dening coverage in case of a accident involving overweight issues. Like I told wadcutter if you want to trash talk I'll respond in kind. Your choice.

Your still blowing smoke trying to discreadit 10 tons comments and ingnoring the fed reg I posted about "missing GVWR placard". The 390.5 reg just proves the legality of the door tag which is what this thread is about.

Fed regs regarding door tag and how your/my state enforces those regs for a combined combo would be a better thread topic as too many are clueless about their owns state enforcement of those fed regs involving door tag issues and a combined combo. Also some, as you and others think, that my state enforces door tag as your state. Not so. I certainly wouldn't take someone claiming to be a LEO on a RV web advice over what your own state LEO.

The door tag GVWR in my state is used for commercial combined plates above 26k and axle capacity not covered in our max axle loads allowed/bridge law. Door tag GVWR is not used on the non commercial side in OK, which includes RVs, for a combined combo. In fact their is no gvwr on a oklahoma registration unless its for commercial purposes.

Door tag GAWRs/tire caps apply in my state for commercial combined combo. They also apply for non commercial combined combo which include RVs.

Notice the word "may". It does not say "must" or "can not" anywhere in the regs you qouted. When I registered my private truck I asked how much weight I could register for and the answer was as much as I am willing to pay for - period. If you can register your truck above the "Fed Label" (which they allowed in my case and have allowed as a practice for many years) then 10 Ton is wrong. 10 Ton did not say you "may" have to provide documentation proving the weight you are requesting does not exceed the Fed label. What he did say was "it can only be registered for it's Fed label". If he is referring to the sticker on the inside of the door then he is wrong. The fact is Texas will allow you to register above that number or below it for that matter.

As far as the "Fed Label" goes - it states on the sticker that the listed weights are valid only for the truck as it was shipped from the maker. The very first mod done to the truck makes the sticker obsolete. In my case the "label" on my truck reflects a SRW configuration. My truck is no longer a SRW truck. The Sticker on my truck no longer in any way reflects (not that is ever did) my trucks capabilities.

Again you would like us to believe that every professional expert on this forum is wrong and you alone are correct. You must really love that fantasy world you live in.

My father always told me that only an idiot argues with an idiot. I believe by his definition continuing this dialoge would make me an idiot.

[JIMNLIN]

Gunpilot77 wrote:

JIMNLIN wrote:

Once again this thred is about fed regs and nowhere have I said OK requires RVs to comply with commercial regs/med cards. So thats a non issue.

11/12/07 you said" His comment on what vehicle weights they use for enforcement for our non commercial trucks was in his words mirrowed the same weight regs as dot uses."

the same door tag GVWR/GAWR issues pertaining to it legal use.

JIMNLIN wrote:
What I said was that door tag GVWR/GAWR are legal issues. The 390.5 reg on "missing GVWR tag" I posted just proves that point.

Once again, you did not quote anything out of 390.5 . 390.5 is the section that lists definitions, nothing else.

heres is 390.5 reg from the FMCSA web site
Question 3: If a vehicle’s GVWR plate and/or VIN number are missing but its actual gross weight is 10,001 pounds or more, may an enforcement officer use the latter instead of GVWR to determine the applicability of the FMCSRs?

Guidance: Yes. The only apparent reason to remove the manufacturer’s GVWR plate or VIN number is to make it impossible for roadside enforcement officers to determine the applicability of the FMCSRs, which have a GVWR threshold of 10,001 pounds. In order to frustrate willful evasion of safety regulations, an officer may therefore presume that a vehicle which does not have a manufacturer’s GVWR plate and/or does not have a VIN number has a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more if: (1) It has a size and configuration normally associated with vehicles that have a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more; and (2) It has an actual gross weight of 10,001 pounds or more.

A motor carrier or driver may rebut the presumption by providing the enforcement officer the GVWR plate, the VIN number or other information of comparable reliability which demonstrates, or allows the officer to determine, that the GVWR of the vehicle is below the jurisdictional weight threshold.
"applicability and definitions"

Also, on 11/19/07 you claimed that you could exceed the door tag numbers

"let me say this again. When we apply and operate with combined plates for a 3500 truck [example] the door tag GVWR and the trailers GVWR is added together to make my combined numbers. If the state the truck is registered in has a uprate GVWR [as my state] that it is my registered GVWR. My last 3500 DRW had the 15000 GVWR uprate registration plus the 16000 GVWR trailer gave me my combined 31000 lb combined."

So which is it? Or do you have a special Dodge 3500 with a GVWR of 15,000 equipped with special axles that have a total weight capability of 15,000? My Dodge duelly axle ratings added together is 12,000.

Repeating the same gibberish over and over will not make it true.

And I will call the number you listed.

talk about gibbrish. My only claim was uprating GVWR to 15000 lb for my combined plates. If I choose not to uprate I use the trucks GVWR for a combined plate. GAWRs cannot be changed. Apparenty your state doesn't have a uprate tonnage/weight/etc as my state and others do. While your asking question go over on some of the commercial haulers webs and let them explain how GVWR is used and how GAWR come to play concerning combined towing. Try uship.com and ask 1 mean dog to explain door tag issues. He ain't nice but he can explain it much better than I can.

[JIMNLIN]

(quote=jmramiller)
A direct quote from 10 ton's post " In the case of a private use pickup, it can only be registered for it's Fed label". This is not the only time he contridicts himself in the post. He also states that an insurance claim can be denied for being "overweight" which is absolutely incorrect.
======================================================================
Texas 502 registration regs
(quote)Sec. 502.055. DETERMINATION OF WEIGHT. (a) The weight, net weight, or gross weight of a vehicle, as determined by the department, is the correct weight for registration purposes, regardless of any other purported weight of the vehicle.

(b) The department may require an applicant for registration under this chapter to provide the department with evidence of:

(1) the manufacturer's rated carrying capacity for the vehicle;

(2) the nominal tonnage rating of the vehicle;

(3) the gross weight rating of the vehicle; or

(4) any combination of information described in Subdivisions (1)-(3).



Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. Amended by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 625, Sec. 3, eff. Sept. 1, 1997.

(/quote)

10 ton was correct just as he was about buying more weight for commercial use and private pickup. looks like you need some input from casper or some one that is familiar with your own state of TX registration regs as your knowledge is .... zero. If you knew anything about "commercial insurance" you would know that a violation of FMCSRs can and will lead to insurance dening coverage in case of a accident involving overweight issues. Like I told wadcutter if you want to trash talk I'll respond in kind. Your choice.

Your still blowing smoke trying to discreadit 10 tons comments and ingnoring the fed reg I posted about "missing GVWR placard". The 390.5 reg just proves the legality of the door tag which is what this thread is about.

Fed regs regarding door tag and how your/my state enforces those regs for a combined combo would be a better thread topic as too many are clueless about their owns state enforcement of those fed regs involving door tag issues and a combined combo. Also some, as you and others think, that my state enforces door tag as your state. Not so. I certainly wouldn't take someone claiming to be a LEO on a RV web advice over what your own state LEO.

The door tag GVWR in my state is used for commercial combined plates above 26k and axle capacity not covered in our max axle loads allowed/bridge law. Door tag GVWR is not used on the non commercial side in OK, which includes RVs, for a combined combo. In fact their is no gvwr on a oklahoma registration unless its for commercial purposes.

Door tag GAWRs/tire caps apply in my state for commercial combined combo. They also apply for non commercial combined combo which include RVs.

[Gunpilot77]

JIMNLIN wrote:

Once again this thred is about fed regs and nowhere have I said OK requires RVs to comply with commercial regs/med cards. So thats a non issue.

11/12/07 you said" His comment on what vehicle weights they use for enforcement for our non commercial trucks was in his words mirrowed the same weight regs as dot uses."

JIMNLIN wrote:
What I said was that door tag GVWR/GAWR are legal issues. The 390.5 reg on "missing GVWR tag" I posted just proves that point.

Once again, you did not quote anything out of 390.5 . 390.5 is the section that lists definitions, nothing else.

Also, on 11/19/07 you claimed that you could exceed the door tag numbers

"let me say this again. When we apply and operate with combined plates for a 3500 truck [example] the door tag GVWR and the trailers GVWR is added together to make my combined numbers. If the state the truck is registered in has a uprate GVWR [as my state] that it is my registered GVWR. My last 3500 DRW had the 15000 GVWR uprate registration plus the 16000 GVWR trailer gave me my combined 31000 lb combined."

So which is it? Or do you have a special Dodge 3500 with a GVWR of 15,000 equipped with special axles that have a total weight capability of 15,000? My Dodge duelly axle ratings added together is 12,000.

Repeating the same gibberish over and over will not make it true.

And I will call the number you listed.

[JIMNLIN]

Gunpilot77 wrote:
If you were to be believed, i.e., that OK requires RVs to comply with commercial regs then all of us with rigs over 10,000 GVWR would be required to have a med card.

I read the post on page 16, and could care less about FMCSA regs while towing my 5er. How about the phone number and name of your all knowing trooper. Every time I pass thru OK I plan on stopping at the scales to test your assertions, but they are always closed.

And this is what pipewelder said; "As for the GVWR from the manufacturers, this is for warrantys and guidelines." You conveniently ignored that part.

Once again this thred is about fed regs and nowhere have I said OK requires RVs to comply with commercial regs/med cards. So thats a non issue. What I said was that door tag GVWR/GAWR are legal issues. The 390.5 reg on "missing GVWR tag" I posted just proves that point. This thread is about fed regs. How is door tag GVWR applied and how is GAWR used.

As far as GVWR pertains to non commercial which includes RVs, its not used in my state for combined combos. Thats where door tag GAWR/tire caps come to play per OK reg title 47 "weighing of vehicles". As the 390.5 reg the trooper gave me says door tag (placard) GVWR is used in determining the applicability of FMCSRs.

OK scale house will wave you on through with a RV umless you have a dot number on the truck.

Troopers name and phone number. LOL. Now isn't that original. If your really interested , which I doubt, here is OHP troop S phone number 405-521-6103 which is our commercial weights division. There will be a lieutenant on duty to answer your question on how OK uses door tag GVWR/GAWR either commercial or non commercial. Their going to tell you the same thing I've said as I've already talked with them last fall. Be sure and ask the officer for OK regs numbers.

the 390.5 reg is about operators making it impossible for roadside officers to determine ;

Question 3: If a vehicle’s GVWR plate and/or VIN number are missing but its actual gross weight is 10,001 pounds or more, may an enforcement officer use the latter instead of GVWR to determine the applicability of the FMCSRs?

Guidance: Yes. The only apparent reason to remove the manufacturer’s GVWR plate or VIN number is to make it impossible for roadside enforcement officers to determine the applicability of the FMCSRs, which have a GVWR threshold of 10,001 pounds. In order to frustrate willful evasion of safety regulations, an officer may therefore presume that a vehicle which does not have a manufacturer’s GVWR plate and/or does not have a VIN number has a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more if: (1) It has a size and configuration normally associated with vehicles that have a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more; and (2) It has an actual gross weight of 10,001 pounds or more.

A motor carrier or driver may rebut the presumption by providing the enforcement officer the GVWR plate, the VIN number or other information of comparable reliability which demonstrates, or allows the officer to determine, that the GVWR of the vehicle is below the jurisdictional weight threshold.

All I'm saying is this proves the door tag is a legal fed issue and is more than a mattress tag or just for warranty issues.

[hook47]

I am so proud of myself not to be drawn back into this craziness. Probably because there is no way I could add to the LEO's that calmly try to explain, time after time, the LAW. Wadcutter, you deserve a medal. Hope we meet some day. Your calm attitude, service to our country and desire to educate us is truly impressive, Enjoy. G.

[jmramiller]

JIMNLIN wrote:

jmramiller wrote:

I don't know what 10 ton knows but I can tell you what he does not know. He claims that in Texas you can only register a private truck up to the weight on the "Fed Label".

I guess on the other matters we will simply have to agree to disagree. Every LEO with weight enforcement experience (throughout the country I might add) has taken the same position as wadcutter on this subject. I have yet to see anyone who can speak with any authority on the matter support your argument on this forum. Of course some poeple will always take the Lone Wolf position regardless of how much the evidence points in the other direction. You are going to believe what you believe and there is nothing the experienced and intelligent real experts are going to say that is going to change your mind.

as usual your confusing issues and blowing other parts way out of proportion and not understanding what has been said. Do we disagree you bet.
Here's what 10 ton said on TX registration;

10 ton quote: "Texas allows one to register a pickup for whatever weight you are willing to pay the tax for, when using as a company vehicle hauling your own companies equipment(non-commercial), or if it is "for hire" or commercial use and in both cases the trailer has no weight applied to the registration (token trailer tag)."

experienced and Intelligent real experts. LOL.
Yes I've talked with two very experienced and intelligent real experts from my state weights enforcement division which is where the clickie above came from.

A direct quote from 10 ton's post " In the case of a private use pickup, it can only be registered for it's Fed label". This is not the only time he contridicts himself in the post. He also states that an insurance claim can be denied for being "overweight" which is absolutely incorrect.

Your quote "I've talked with two very experienced and intelligent real experts from my state weights enforcement division". I bet you also talk to Casper on a regular basis too. Anybody on this forum can say "I talked to so and so". Let's hear it from the horses mouth. I am still waiting for one of the real experts on this forum to agree with you. Guess what, it is not going to happen. I believe the only one who is confusing the issues here is you. One thing I have learned on this forum is that some people will fight to the bitter end to defend what they believe regardless of the facts. You my friend are one of those people.

[jody_h]

Here the only numbers on the door the DOT looks for on commercial trucks are the DOT numbers and there on the outside of the door.:B

[blt2ski]

Pipewelder has also said what I have said, you need to be under ratings, along with having enough paid for license, and any other regs they choose to enforce. usually in Wa st tho, I do not have to worry about the manufactures ratings, it is how wide my tires are, and the fed 20K per axel max. So in his example, it is in reality, the paid for license they, ie WSP cares about not the manufacture ratings!

marty

[Gunpilot77]

JIMNLIN wrote:

OK has a reg thats specifically deals with missing placards/knowingly destroying/removing/covering/destroying which makes it a misdeameanor to do so. His point was he can hit the operator with a missing placard.

See my post above on page #16 dated 1-19-09 11:36am for my point on commercial and non commercial issues regarding GVWR/GAWR door tag/placard/post or what ever others use for description.

How about a link to that reg. I'd bet that, once again, it pertains to commercial operators who try to beat the system. If you were to be believed, i.e., that OK requires RVs to comply with commercial regs then all of us with rigs over 10,000 GVWR would be required to have a med card.

I read the post on page 16, and could care less about FMCSA regs while towing my 5er. How about the phone number and name of your all knowing trooper. Every time I pass thru OK I plan on stopping at the scales to test your assertions, but they are always closed.

And this is what pipewelder said; "As for the GVWR from the manufacturers, this is for warrantys and guidelines." You conveniently ignored that part.

[JIMNLIN]

here another member that understands the use of door sill as he puts it/placard/tag/post concerning GAWR to balance the load/purchasing GVWR and how its used for a combined tow and has it right about how their used in his state. This post comes from the 5th wheel forum page #6 and the topic is "towing and overweights" which was closed. He is what is called a legal commercial hauler.

Pipewelder71


•--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This topic has been on going on other forums as well. As for the GVWR from the manufacturers, this is for warrantys and guidelines. If you see on the door sills, you can see the axle weight ratings. It's usually higher than the tire rating, usually. I have friends that are hotshots, most use a F-350 dually hauling up to 42,000 GCVW. That's legal. Because each axle "carrys" it's own weight. Each axle has the brake rating for the weight it's designed to carry. The same is for the tires as well.

So let's say that your GCVW is 26,000 lbs.

Your front axle rating is 5,000 lbs., and you're weigh out at 4,500 lbs.

Your rear axle rating is 6,500lbs., and you're weigh out at 5,000 lbs.

Your trailer has 3 axles, each rated for 7,000 lbs., and you're weigh out at 5,500 lbs. per axle.

As you can see you're under as per weight rating. I have a F-350 SRW, but I can "buy" tonnage in Washington state. If you're pulled over, you might be good on the axles. But if you don't have the right tonnage plates, that's where they can fine you. Like if your set up is registered for 12,000 lbs. GCVW and you're hauling 13,000 lbs. You're overweight because you don't have the right plates. However with the same set up, if you're registered for 26,000 lbs. and you're hauling 25,990 lbs. You're legal because you have the correct plates and you're under on your axles. If you think that I'm an idiot, than you shouldn't be driving. I have a Class A CDL with doubles/triples trailers and tanks endorsements. So this isn't my first rodeo.

It's not difficult to figure it out, just make sure that your tires are rated for Load E. Too many people get cheap and buy a lower rating tire because it's cheaper. I always try to find the highest weight rating tire in the trend design I'm looking for. Besides, the only way the DOT is going to pull you over is that you're driving all over the place or too fast. Also you don't have to enter the weight station, that's only for commerical traffic.

When he hooks to his RV/tractor and implement trailer/large boat and trailer or any non commercial truck/trailer combo he/us still have GAWR/tire caps to go with for a legal load.

[JIMNLIN]

Gunpilot77 wrote:

I agree with the link. However, as been stated OVER AND OVER that is a link to commercial trucking. Your specific premise about the door tag question only pertains to COMMERCIAL vehicle operators who try to beat the system by removing the plate to avoid medical card requirements, etc.
By the way, your "clickie above on what 390.5 says" is inaccarate. Your clickie refers to 390 regs and specifically refers to 390.5 as the place to find definitions, just like Wadcutter said.

correct on the commercial trucking part. This whole issue is fed regs and is the trucks door tag GVWR/GAWR a legal tag and is it used for weight issues commercially and non commercial. As the officer that gave the reg to me says 390.5 interpetation
Subpart A—General " APPLICABILITY and definitions" gives the officer guidence if the tag is missing.

OK has a reg thats specifically deals with missing placards/knowingly destroying/removing/covering/destroying which makes it a misdeameanor to do so. His point was he can hit the operator with a missing placard.

See my post above on page #16 dated 1-19-09 11:36am for my point on commercial and non commercial issues regarding GVWR/GAWR door tag/placard/post or what ever others use for description.

[JIMNLIN]

jmramiller wrote:

I don't know what 10 ton knows but I can tell you what he does not know. He claims that in Texas you can only register a private truck up to the weight on the "Fed Label".

I guess on the other matters we will simply have to agree to disagree. Every LEO with weight enforcement experience (throughout the country I might add) has taken the same position as wadcutter on this subject. I have yet to see anyone who can speak with any authority on the matter support your argument on this forum. Of course some poeple will always take the Lone Wolf position regardless of how much the evidence points in the other direction. You are going to believe what you believe and there is nothing the experienced and intelligent real experts are going to say that is going to change your mind.

as usual your confusing issues and blowing other parts way out of proportion and not understanding what has been said. Do we disagree you bet.
Here's what 10 ton said on TX registration;

10 ton quote: "Texas allows one to register a pickup for whatever weight you are willing to pay the tax for, when using as a company vehicle hauling your own companies equipment(non-commercial), or if it is "for hire" or commercial use and in both cases the trailer has no weight applied to the registration (token trailer tag)."

experienced and Intelligent real experts. LOL.
Yes I've talked with two very experienced and intelligent real experts from my state weights enforcement division which is where the clickie above came from.

[Gunpilot77]

JIMNLIN wrote:

Guess you don't agree with what the "clickie above" on what 390.5 says regarding mising door tag GVWR, huh. Thats not surprising as the reg debunks the matteress tag theory and makes the tag a legal issue.

I agree with the link. However, as been stated OVER AND OVER that is a link to commercial trucking. Your specific premise about the door tag question only pertains to COMMERCIAL vehicle operators who try to beat the system by removing the plate to avoid medical card requirements, etc. The plate on my 24' deckover flatbed fell off years ago but it doesn't matter. It is registered for 14k GVWR (the weight on the Certificate of Origin) and is never loaded heavier than that. No problem. Take a look at a lot of the plates on older RVs and you will find they are illegible. Doesn't matter, GVWR does not show up on RV trailer registrations.

By the way, your "clickie above on what 390.5 says" is inaccarate. Your clickie refers to 390 regs and specifically refers to 390.5 as the place to find definitions, just like Wadcutter said.

[jmramiller]

JIMNLIN wrote:

jmramiller wrote:
If I needed medical advise would I consult a doctor or the guy changing the bed pans? I have to agree with "Dr. Wadcutter" on this one.

JIMNLIN - do you really believe that every LEO officer on this forum with weight enforcement experience is wrong on this subject? I have yet to see a single LEO on this forum agree with you. In fact every response I have seen by one of these individuals has directly contradicted your claims. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough.

Are there any LEO's out there who want to support JIMLIN's claims?

Guess you don't agree with what the "clickie above" on what 390.5 says regarding mising door tag GVWR, huh. Thats not surprising as the reg debunks the matteress tag theory and makes the tag a legal issue.

I wasn't interested in info from bed pan changers either so I contacted both my doctor leo (OKDOT field officer and a troop S offier from our new commercial weights enforcement division) who is the only leo I'm concerned with for door tag interpetations for the state of Oklahoma. If it disagrees with your opinion or a leo from other states opinion thats your/their problem. I also don't read as you do that every leo on the web agrees with your position on door tag issues. I've heard comments that because its a RV it doesnt pertain from a leo. Many leos aren't weight certified and know very little about weight regs and how their state enforces door tag issues.

10 ton had some good info/advise also on GVWR/GAWR door tag issues. He probably knows more about door tag GVWR/GAWR issues than anyone on a RV web. Going through different state scale houses for several years gives lots of interpetation experiences. His info/opinion are correct IMO.

I don't know what 10 ton knows but I can tell you what he does not know. He claims that in Texas you can only register a private truck up to the weight on the "Fed Label". This is absolutely false as I have done it myself. He also is not anywhere close in his description of how insurance companies operate. Why would I take his word on any of these matters when I know he is providing incorrect information on these subjects?

I guess on the other matters we will simply have to agree to disagree. Every LEO with weight enforcement experience (throughout the country I might add) has taken the same position as wadcutter on this subject. I have yet to see anyone who can speak with any authority on the matter support your argument on this forum. Of course some poeple will always take the Lone Wolf position regardless of how much the evidence points in the other direction. You are going to believe what you believe and there is nothing the experienced and intelligent real experts are going to say that is going to change your mind.