'14 Ram 2500 Axle Seals Leaking

[LIKE2BUILD]

My '14 2500 has 120,000 miles. This summer before a big trip pulling my 5th wheel out west I found both outer axle seals leaking. I replaced them along with the parking brake shoes and have pulled over 10,000 miles since then. I just recently found the seals are leaking again 😞

What's the deal with this? The pinion seal is fine, but I'm going to check the vent hose check valve to make sure I'm not building up pressure in the axle. Is there anything else that would explain these seals going out again so quick?

During the first replacement I didn't see any obvious grooves or markings on the seal surface. Is there a ready-sleeve available for the axle tube? Or, is there a double lip seal to give extra surface area to hold in the gear lube?

Final question: what is the desired fill level in the axle? I found one person talking about filling only to 1/2" below the fill plug and others talking about filling up to the plug hole. Which is it? Can over filling the axle create problems like I'm having?

KJ

[blofgren]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

blofgren wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

blofgren wrote:
Thanks for the update. I used a very good local shop when I had the axle seals changed on my F350 a few years ago and they told me they ALWAYS recommend changing the bearings when doing the job to prevent leaks. I followed their advice and the seals were bone dry when I traded the truck a few years later.

I have to say that is just ridicules advice. If the bearings look good there is no reason to replace them. Sounds like a good song n dance to up sell!

They may do good work but bad advice!

It really was not a big difference in cost.

Probably because the old bearings needed to be cleaned first costing time to do so. Hope the new bearings are the same or better quality as ones removed.

Not sure; I traded the truck over 4 years ago for the one in my sig! :B

[Cummins12V98]

blofgren wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

blofgren wrote:
Thanks for the update. I used a very good local shop when I had the axle seals changed on my F350 a few years ago and they told me they ALWAYS recommend changing the bearings when doing the job to prevent leaks. I followed their advice and the seals were bone dry when I traded the truck a few years later.

I have to say that is just ridicules advice. If the bearings look good there is no reason to replace them. Sounds like a good song n dance to up sell!

They may do good work but bad advice!

It really was not a big difference in cost.

Probably because the old bearings needed to be cleaned first costing time to do so. Hope the new bearings are the same or better quality as ones removed.

[blofgren]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

blofgren wrote:
Thanks for the update. I used a very good local shop when I had the axle seals changed on my F350 a few years ago and they told me they ALWAYS recommend changing the bearings when doing the job to prevent leaks. I followed their advice and the seals were bone dry when I traded the truck a few years later.

I have to say that is just ridicules advice. If the bearings look good there is no reason to replace them. Sounds like a good song n dance to up sell!

They may do good work but bad advice!

It really was not a big difference in cost.

[Cummins12V98]

blofgren wrote:
Thanks for the update. I used a very good local shop when I had the axle seals changed on my F350 a few years ago and they told me they ALWAYS recommend changing the bearings when doing the job to prevent leaks. I followed their advice and the seals were bone dry when I traded the truck a few years later.

I have to say that is just ridicules advice. If the bearings look good there is no reason to replace them. Sounds like a good song n dance to up sell!

They may do good work but bad advice!

[LIKE2BUILD]

After finding the oil on the OD of the seal I realized I probably didn't need to use the unitized seals. However, if they use these in Class 8 trucks hauling heavy loads they must do so for a good reason. So, now I have extreme duty seals with sealant around the OD so surely I must be good now.

I don't know that you have to ALWAYS change the bearings, but I wanted to do this job one last time for many years so it was worth the little bit of effort and cost to change the bearings.

KJ

[blofgren]

Thanks for the update. I used a very good local shop when I had the axle seals changed on my F350 a few years ago and they told me they ALWAYS recommend changing the bearings when doing the job to prevent leaks. I followed their advice and the seals were bone dry when I traded the truck a few years later.

[garyp4951]

Thank you for the update, and important info on this problem, and glad you were able to get the cracked bolt out.

[LIKE2BUILD]

I just realized I never updated this.

4/30/18
I tore into the axle and found the seals I had previously installed seemed to be leak around the OD of the seal where it's pressed into the hub. No explanation for this because the axle vent tube was free and clear as well.

When I ordered the unitized seals I also bought the machined aluminum seal driver from Torque King 4X4 so I would get the seal installed square.

As I prepped for the work I decided to take extra precaution and go ahead and install new bearings and races in the hubs. Also, I bought an AAM factory finned, aluminum differential cover to help with heat dissipation.

When I installed the new seals I put a thin layer of RTV red (high temp) around the OD of the seal then installed it with the seal driver. Torque King advised to simply put a thin layer of grease on the axle spindle and then use the spindle nut to run it down into place.

After much searching I finally found pre-load specs for the spindle nut. I tightened them down to 22ft-lbs, then backed off 30 degrees or until the nearest keyway lined up with the keyway on the axle tube.

I did do one really stupid thing. As I installed the axle shafts I couldn't remember the torque specs on the axle flange bolts. As I looked online hastily I found 136 ft-lbs. I thought that was a lot, but okay. It seemed like it was waaaayyyy too much torque and it was. When torquing one of them I heard a snap and my gut sank. Another, more thorough search of the interwebs revealed the it's 96ft-lbs for the axle flange bolts :S I ordered all new bolts because surely they were now all over-stretched. While installing the new bolts I found I got lucky because the snap I heard was just the bolt cracking and when I gently removed it the whole thing came out. Whew!!!!!!

Note to self kids......find and verify all torque specs BEFORE starting the work to avoid headaches like these.

So far I see no leaks and everything looks fine. Hopefully this is the last time I have to deal with the hub seals.

KJ

[transamz9]

I always use the old seal to drive the new seal without damage. The nut will put the hub back on.

[LIKE2BUILD]

I'd like to bring this back to the top.

I've ordered the Unitized seals and the seal installer tool. At $30/each it's worth the price to use the tool designed for the part to avoid a failed install.

So next question. The Torque King description says the seal is press fit into both the hub and on the axle. So the tool presses into the hub, but what about onto the axle tube? Is it just using a block of wood on the end of the hub and driving it on? I plan to use gasket maker on both the hub and axle so the pressed surfaces have some 'extra incentive' to not leak.

I'd appreciate any extra advice on this install. I'm certainly going to chase down the axle vent too and make sure it's clear and not building pressure.

KJ

[mapguy]

YES, a unitized seal.

[LIKE2BUILD]

jus2shy wrote:
OP, I hope this helps you. This is for my 2013.

Fill Level - From Bottom of Fill Hole

6 mm (1/4 in.) ± 6 mm (1/4 in.)


And what I find for installing an axle seal

1.Install outer hub bearing cup with Installer 8961 and Handle C-4171 .

2.Install inner hub bearing cup with Installer 8153 and Handle C-4171 .

3.Pack bearings with the appropriate wheel bearing grease.

4.Install rear bearing and install new grease seal with Installer 8963 and Handle C-4171 .

5.Slide hub on the axle tube and install front bearing into the hub.

6.Install hub bearing nut with Socket 8954 (1) and tighten with torque wrench (2) to 30 N·m (22 ft. lbs.) while rotating the hub.

7.Back off nut about 30° and align next hub nut key slot with axle tube key slot and install locking key.

NOTE:
End play should be 0.025-0.25 mm (0.01-0.001 in.)


8.Install retainer ring (1) with ring end in the key slot (2).

9.Install new axle shaft gasket and install the axle shaft.

Great Info. That confirms what I'm now finding from other sources for the fill level and the spindle nut torque.

KJ

[LIKE2BUILD]

mapguy wrote:

Kjun wrote:
Had the same problem with a 86 Ford 1 ton. Wound up upgrading seals. went with a Scott seal. The outside diameter of the seal is stationary to the wheel hub and the inside diameter of the seal is stationary to the axle housing. The seal surface is inside the seal itself.

A rotating type seal is a more robust design especially for axle hub or axle shaft service. They are substantially more expensive along with being a bit harder to install successfully. This is the type seal found on most late model class 6/class 8 trucks and final drive shafts on crawlers due to their ability to survive in harsh conditions.

Would this be called a UNITIZED seal? When searching around I found a seal at a place called Quad4x4.com has a Unitized Seal part# QU50247 that sounds just like this design. They are $30/each so that fits the 3X price that was mentioned.

Quad4X4 wrote:
QU50247 is a unitized oil bath rear wheel seal that is designed so the inner sleeve rotates within the outer Seal Shell. This means the seal is a press fit on both the spindle and in the wheel hub.

I’m certainly going to chase down the vent to make sure it’s free and will also ensure fill level and spindle nut preload. Assuming all of that is fine and these seals just failed, then it sounds like a unitized seal is the way to go to avoid future problems.

KJ

[mapguy]

Kjun wrote:
Had the same problem with a 86 Ford 1 ton. Wound up upgrading seals. went with a Scott seal. Motion industries sold them at the time. This would be a industrial seal and bearing warehouse. They work a little different than your automotive seals. The outside diameter of the seal is stationary to the wheel hub and the inside diameter of the seal is stationary to the axle housing. The seal surface is inside the seal itself. You do not need a axle sleeve repair kit with this seal. Expect to pay about 3 times as much for this seal. A good seal bearing store should be able to cross reference to this seal using the number off the old seal.

A rotating type seal is a more robust design especially for axle hub or axle shaft service. They are substantially more expensive along with being a bit harder to install successfully. This is the type seal found on most late model class 6/class 8 trucks and final drive shafts on crawlers due to their ability to survive in harsh conditions.