2021 F-150 Brake Controller problems

[a-d-s]

Long version of what is going on for a bunch of us is here:
https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/trailer-brake-not-working.3039/

Short version is that there is an intermittent issue with the TBC not working either at the start of the trip of randomly part way through. It's not the trailer as many of us have had them checked out thoroughly, and the issues are common.

Just wanted to get as much visibility to this problem and a potential solutions, other than Ford getting off their butts and figuring it out!

It's really frustrating as I love everything about this truck otherwise!

[Grit_dog]

Sjm9911 wrote:
My silverado has no problems, the controller works fine for me. Just watch the 2021 f 150s. Lots of other weird ellecteical stuff, i said this somewhere else before. Guy at work is in the process of lemon lawing one. Just hope its a fluke.

Just part of the game with newer vehicles.
Except the electrical glitches are less “fixable” with wires and fuses and stuff.
Had 4- 2014 Silverados, identical half tons brand new, up in the Arctic. 2 had no issues. 1 had an issue that required re flashing something a couple times. The last one had a major electrical freak out and got drug onto the back of a winch truck and sent to town never to be seen again.
For the last 4 years I had a 2016 Silverado almost identical to the 2014s. It would have a random black screen on the touch screen and none of the radio/hvac controls would work, even the physical buttons and dials. Was bad once when I had the radio cranked up and then it went black, as I was on the road. So 30 minutes later that radio station was out of range and I had full volume static!
It would reset itself and work fine. Happened like 5 times maybe over a couple years.
Now, the new Silverado once in a while will change the phone volume on car play to full volume. And sometimes can’t think fast enough to change radio stations with the touch screen or steering wheel controls. But the tuner knob still works when this happens.
Knock on wood, both 2016 FCA personal vehicles have had no electrical glitches.

Although through the 10 or so trucks I’ve had with IBCs over the last decade, none have had IBC issues. From all of the big 3.

[Sjm9911]

My silverado has no problems, the controller works fine for me. Just watch the 2021 f 150s. Lots of other weird ellecteical stuff, i said this somewhere else before. Guy at work is in the process of lemon lawing one. Just hope its a fluke.

[BenK]

Rube Goldberg like IMHO these IBC’s

PWM, sure it is great and a buzz word for decades…but…for a trailer brake system ?!? There is a lot of inductance in the run from the TV bumper plug to the brake magnet (even if the trailer has hydraulic/disc), PWM doesn’t make much sense other than to impress & bragging rights thereof…

If the IBS’s are PWM, then an oscilloscope will be needed and again why PWM ? A DMM won’t be able to read PWM above 10Hz, so it might read an RMS, but not true voltage output.

Maybe since highly integrated…the ABS system computers might need to have a PWM input in order to make their decisions, but another why make it so complex ?

Can see the why if that ABS is also highly integrated with a TV anti sway system, but the trailer brakes do NOT…can NOT respond that quickly…hysteresis is too large through it’s harness & magnets (have seen potential patents trying to make trailer, shoe/drum brakes have an ABS function…ditto that same white paper for trailers discs systems).

Didn’t go over to that F150 forum and that approx 15 page discussion on this issue and repeat for someone to test out a P2/P3 that bypasses the IBS.

If that works and is solid without whatever issues the IBS displays….nailed and low cost vs any OEM fix

Last checked P2’s were around $120-$150 bucks on sale (my P3 was stolen recently) and a few hours making up your own harness. ONly issue can think of is that if your dash ‘Tow/Haul’ button is on, the computer systems might get confused trying to talk to the IBS…and have a poop fit by tossing an error code…because the IBS answers…huh?

[Brandon_the_Tra]

Me Again wrote:

Brandon the Traveler wrote:
This issue with the 2021's is solved......sort of. Ford needs to change the brake controller module to a revised one, then reprogram the ECM and BCM. I say sort of because now the issue is Ford does not have the revised module and has no idea when they will have them available due to the chip shortage. They will probably make this low priority for trucks already sold when they can't get new trucks to market because of lack of hardware. They'll drag their butts and devote anything they can get to new sales until when this fiasco eases. One thing is certain and that is this chip thing won't be resolved until 2022 or possibly even 2023.

On a side note GM has brake controller issues with some of the new Silverados where they will not put out more than 7 volts. Same deal here, parts to rectify are not available.

Not really a time to buy new trucks, or a lot of other things. Some of these clown dealers are tacking on a $5K "market surcharge" to new trucks and its non negotiable, sticker + $5K. Go ahead and walk, they don't care because another sucker will come along and pay it.

Measuring IBC output with a volt meter no longer works with most modern controllers as they are variable pulse width signals they put out and not an uniform straight line DC Voltage that is varied.

Your point is? I don't care how the output is measured or what is used, it's a known issue with some new Silverados and GM has a TSB issued about it, but not the parts to fix it. 7 volts does next to nothing to a brake magnet. I doubt you see many owners of a new Silverado affected out in the driveway with a pulse modulation refractor, a nuclear densmometer,and a schwansoculator trying to diagnose the factory brake controller on a new truck with a BtoB warranty lol. :S

[Me_Again]

Brandon the Traveler wrote:
This issue with the 2021's is solved......sort of. Ford needs to change the brake controller module to a revised one, then reprogram the ECM and BCM. I say sort of because now the issue is Ford does not have the revised module and has no idea when they will have them available due to the chip shortage. They will probably make this low priority for trucks already sold when they can't get new trucks to market because of lack of hardware. They'll drag their butts and devote anything they can get to new sales until when this fiasco eases. One thing is certain and that is this chip thing won't be resolved until 2022 or possibly even 2023.

On a side note GM has brake controller issues with some of the new Silverados where they will not put out more than 7 volts. Same deal here, parts to rectify are not available.

Not really a time to buy new trucks, or a lot of other things. Some of these clown dealers are tacking on a $5K "market surcharge" to new trucks and its non negotiable, sticker + $5K. Go ahead and walk, they don't care because another sucker will come along and pay it.

Measuring IBC output with a volt meter no longer works with most modern controllers as they are variable pulse width signals they put out and not an uniform straight line DC Voltage that is varied.

[Grit_dog]

Lynnmor wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Maybe you should join their forum and tell them they're all full of ____...

Maybe you could just go away if you can't say something useful. Bringing a 15 page pile of nonsense to this forum, for you to defend, isn't worth anything.

That wasn’t what I suggested…
If you can’t comprehend that apparently Ford has an issue with the brake controller function in some trucks then your commentary is not valid.

[Lynnmor]

Grit dog wrote:
Maybe you should join their forum and tell them they're all full of ____...

Maybe you could just go away if you can't say something useful. Bringing a 15 page pile of nonsense to this forum, for you to defend, isn't worth anything.

[Brandon_the_Tra]

This issue with the 2021's is solved......sort of. Ford needs to change the brake controller module to a revised one, then reprogram the ECM and BCM. I say sort of because now the issue is Ford does not have the revised module and has no idea when they will have them available due to the chip shortage. They will probably make this low priority for trucks already sold when they can't get new trucks to market because of lack of hardware. They'll drag their butts and devote anything they can get to new sales until when this fiasco eases. One thing is certain and that is this chip thing won't be resolved until 2022 or possibly even 2023.

On a side note GM has brake controller issues with some of the new Silverados where they will not put out more than 7 volts. Same deal here, parts to rectify are not available.

Not really a time to buy new trucks, or a lot of other things. Some of these clown dealers are tacking on a $5K "market surcharge" to new trucks and its non negotiable, sticker + $5K. Go ahead and walk, they don't care because another sucker will come along and pay it.

[MFL]

I agree with Grit dog AGAIN! Maybe I'm just an agreeable guy!

I've also installed many brake controllers, in many vehicles. Prewired was great, actually did two complete installs, running all wiring. The IBC is a huge step up, most cases, with only a few issues on a certain brand early on.

The Ford IBC, in my opinion, is top of the heap, and should not be replaced as Ben is suggesting!

Note to Grit: If you plan on heaven, now would be a good time to start working toward that!!

Jerry

[Grit_dog]

BenK wrote:
Guessing that these fairly new 'highly integrated' OEM brake controllers are running in 'open loop' and the master/slave & it's lookup tables are a mess...not all the time, but occasionally gets into a state that the +100 computers get confused...ABS, traction control, sway control, engine/tranny computers, etc

Suggest to you all on that forum to consider a trial where one would install a P2, but leave all the OEM TBS wiring alone.

A dedicated trailer brake controller only deals with ONE external thing...the trailer brakes. Yes, it has inertia sensors, etc, but it is a standalone system NOT tied into the complex TV's systems.

Betcha the problem goes away

So ditch the fact that it has built in braking system? ****, that's one of the nicer features on my last several trucks that was not available just 10 years ago or so. I was really getting sick of putting a new brake controller in every truck! Bet I've installed/moved 10 controllers between personal rigs and installed close to 20 in my assigned company trucks. And who knows how many more in other work trucks.
Hell, I thought I died and went to heaven when they finally started pre-wiring them for brake controllers.

What you suggested is akin to "my power windows don't work right."
"Well that there new fangled stuff just aint worth a hill of beans. You should replace them with manual crank windows!"

[BenK]

Guessing that these fairly new 'highly integrated' OEM brake controllers are running in 'open loop' and the master/slave & it's lookup tables are a mess...not all the time, but occasionally gets into a state that the +100 computers get confused...ABS, traction control, sway control, engine/tranny computers, etc

Suggest to you all on that forum to consider a trial where one would install a P2, but leave all the OEM TBS wiring alone.

A dedicated trailer brake controller only deals with ONE external thing...the trailer brakes. Yes, it has inertia sensors, etc, but it is a standalone system NOT tied into the complex TV's systems.

Betcha the problem goes away

[a-d-s]

In terms of troubleshooting, my trailer (not that old, 2016) worked flawlessly with my old truck and Prodigy P3. As soon as I switched to the new truck I had problems. I assumed it was trailer/brakes related.

Took it to a trailer mechanic (not an RV shop), he had a once over everything, tested it and gave it a 100% clean bill of health. My 7 pin is in good shape. So that is what led me to it being a truck issue. Others on that forum have done similar exercises, and many have brand new trailers.

So while agree, much can go wrong in this "system" of truck/trailer, I am fairly confident it's the truck and some sort of software issue.

My hunch, unverified, is that the resistance threshold for the truck knowing a trailer is connected is too low. And it's bumping in and out of thinking the trailer is there or not.

[Grit_dog]

Lynnmor wrote:
I didn't read the whole 15 pages, but it seems to me that there are those that did incomplete troubleshooting. There are more connections in the truck and trailer brakes than just at the bumper, and spreading grease is not a repair.

Well since you're discounting the fact that the Fords could have an issue, I'm sure it's something other than the trucks. Maybe you should join their forum and tell them they're all full of ____...

[Lynnmor]

I didn't read the whole 15 pages, but it seems to me that there are those that did incomplete troubleshooting. There are more connections in the truck and trailer brakes than just at the bumper, and spreading grease is not a repair.