'71 Starcraft Wanderstar- "The Hilton"

[westend]

Thought I should post this up because the "Search" feature doesn't return any results and there might be some useful info for older Starcraft owners or those that are mad enough to embark on a complete restoration.

I purchased this 1971 Starcraft-Wanderstar from a local chap with a special purpose in mind: Gutting out the interior to insulate and make comfrotable for working stiffs like myself and, in particular, for those doing work-camping in the upper Midwest. My criteria was: a name brand with solid fame construction, a body that could be worked with (no accident damage, and good running gear (wheels, tires, bearings, and hitch, etc.) I also focused my purchase towards a TT from 19'->26'. I have a Ford F-250 4x4, CC with trailer and tow package. Pictures of "The Hilton" (named and painted by a previous owner) as bought:











I am currently still working on the Hilton and have about three weeks into it, so far. I am keeping a pictorial work log and will share most of it if others are interested. I have totally gutted the inside and am discarding most of the mechanicals, along with replacing and eliminating windows, repairing water-damaged framing (all of the wall top plates and half of the studs), relocating most of the plumbing, replacing all of the wiring, and installing a completely different decorative style.

To give an idea of what I found after gutting out the inside, here is a picture of the driver's side and the wheel well:



Here is that same area after reconstruction, the new wheel well frame is skinned with 16 ga. steel sheet, inside, and sprayed with truck bed liner. The frame is insulated and there is a thermal break between any out side joining surfaces and the inside sheeting.



Two of the most cantankerous aspects have been the replacement of the top wall plates and aluminum trim rail and removal of the floor to insulate. The major obstacle to the first is the amount of various goop that was used by previous owners to stop water intrusion. That, and the thousands of clutch drive screws and staples that were removed. The basic carpentry was simple, I replaced the rotten wood with pressure treated fir and, after a day with a grinder fitted with a steel wire wheel to clean the trim rail, the surfaces were all sealed, stapled, and screwed back together.

This picture shows the new top plates and the rafter reinforcement I thought was necessary:



While diving into the wheel well repair I noticed the floor had deteriorated under the water heater. Closer examination showed that the 1 1/2" space underneath the floor was uninsulated, excepting the 1/2" Buildrite on top of the aluminum belly skin. I pulled all of the plywood and installed 1 1/2" of extruded polystyrene in that space:



I've replaced two of the three windows I planned on and have removed two, all together. Those vacated jalousie windows are framed and will become insulated wall.



Tomorrow, I'll be replacing the 72" front window and will then move on to the wiring. The existing Precision Dynamics converter tested to be OK and has a solid state battery charger so I will use that for the DC. I am upgrading the older 30 amp service to 50 amp. If there's interest, I can post some more pictures up of the restoration, as I progress, and am always open to any ideas from others.
FWIW, I am going with a Western motif for the interior and have already renamed my baby, "The Cowboy/Hilton".

Edit: Pictures in this thread are unviewable because of Photobucket's recent change in Terms of Service. I plan to migrate to a different hosting site and to repair the images. Please, be patient, as there are many images in this thread.

Edit: Anyone wanting to view images can download this browser extension:Browser extension. It makes all the images in this thread viewable.

[RedRocket204]

Awesome. Thanks for detailed answers to my questions. I honestly didn't doubt you took that into consideration but since I didn't know, had to ask. 🙂

Seems like when fully gutting and doing a rebuild on a RV trailer, balance consideration would be extremely important. Glad to hear everything worked out perfectly for you.

[westend]

My curiosity goes to the build you did. Was your build floor plan similar/identical to the original floor plan? If not, did you plan your floor plan for TT side to side balance and front to back appropriate tongue weight balance? If you didn't doing any such planning, were you faced with any difficulties in regards to balance and how did it turn out? I apologize if this was asked and discussed in your thread.

Thanks for the compliment.
I modified the floorplan in that I added the bunk space and moved the toilet to it's present location, also added a partition between the bathroom and bunks. Most appliance and plumbing fixture locations remain as original.

Yes, I tried to be cognizant of weight distribution. In this project, I knew the weight of what I had removed and the listed dry weight of the trailer. One thing that worked against me was that the kitchen, with all of the appliances, is along one side with the furnace and water tank, also. When in transport, I use the other side for most of my storage and locate the spare tire and 2 golf cart batteries on the light side. Judging from towing experience, it is pretty close side-to-side (I haven't weighed them) as towing is like pulling an extension of the truck.

One thing that worked in my favor is that Starcraft used the same frame on this 22' model as their lengthier models--one frame for all. It has two boxed frame rails. More than enough frame for this weight.

As weighted originally, I increased the weight by about 600 lbs. Tongue weight is approx 11.5%. I actually thought that I might lose weight as I removed a lot of particle board, the original furnace, and the original fridge. I did add a lot of insulation and some tile, so that would explain some of the difference.

Hope that helps in explanation.

[RedRocket204]

Nice build out and details on your thread!


Was curious about something though as I didn't take the time to read through the entire thread, mainly scanned it and checked out all the pictures with commented details. It is a very long thread. 🙂


My curiosity goes to the build you did. Was your build floor plan similar/identical to the original floor plan? If not, did you plan your floor plan for TT side to side balance and front to back appropriate tongue weight balance? If you didn't doing any such planning, were you faced with any difficulties in regards to balance and how did it turn out? I apologize if this was asked and discussed in your thread.

Thanks and again, great build!

[westend]

Been awhile since I posted to this thread. I'm hoping LG and other guys will keep looking for that kind of a project. Basically, anyone that can build a doghouse can rebuild a trailer. There are just not that many unconventional things to deal with.

I guess some of my ideas (like heater changes, countertop building, and tiling) make it seem like a real complicated deal but it's only as complicated as you and the mfg. make it.

The Hilton is still parked in it's Winter storage space. I'm hoping to move it soon to finish a couple odds and ends. I'll share the bits when i'm on task.

[LG61820]

Went to visit the TT in the rain and found a few more leaks than expected. Also found that the title is not clear. The PO planned to park it and not pull it so she never registered it. Back to craigslist & Ebay. LG

[LG61820]

I have read your thread at least twice now.

I am seriously looking at a 1971 holiday traveler that doesn't appear to have as much water damage as your trailer had.

If I don't find any more water damage than the minor damage around a window and at the back corner I doubt I will undertake to redo the wiring and plumbing.

would you express an opinion on this plan? I will take your opinion under consideration, but no liability either way. ;-> Thanks.

[westend]

guitarman023 wrote:
Finally found your build thread, great job! Long read for me, but gave me some good ideas on improving my own trailer.

Thanks, hope some of it helped.

[guitarman023]

Finally found your build thread, great job! Long read for me, but gave me some good ideas on improving my own trailer.

[westend]

2112 wrote:
I have been following your Hilton project for some time now and I have to say - Well Done!
You mention a 5000 lb. trailer above. Did you finally get her on a scale or is this an estimate? I'm curious of your final numbers if/when you ever weigh her.

Thanks.
I had it on the Cat scale with most of the stuff I'd take camping last year. It weighed 4920 lbs. at that time. Since then, I added the solar system and two GC2 6V batteries. The new tires may weigh a few pounds more, also. I haven't had it on the scale since the additions.

[2112]

I have been following your Hilton project for some time now and I have to say - Well Done!
You mention a 5000 lb. trailer above. Did you finally get her on a scale or is this an estimate? I'm curious of your final numbers if/when you ever weigh her.

[westend]

JiminDenver wrote:
With 250w you should do well depending on the amount of sun you see. Even flat our 230w panel has kept up with just a few hours of sun a day and we use the furnace a lot more now. (and fans, and TV/DVD and LEDs) This year has been a test to see how far our single grp 27 could be pushed and I thought a cloudy day when the furnace was used a lot was going to do it in but the panel being portable and taking advantage of a few brief moment of sun got us back up to float. The next morning was sunny and all was good.

West, you certainly have a boondockers special there. Using the full battery bank and solar we are pretty much only limited to how much water/food we carry. Power is never a real issue.

Right, Jim, this solar stuff is seamless once you get the bits figured out.

Today, the Hilton got a new set of shoes. These Carlisle ST RH Load D Trails were about the best fit. I'm kind of married, for the present, to the older 4-holer rims and axles. The torsion axles have a good ride but the rims have a deep offset so going to a bigger profile isn't possible. I'll see if I have an issue with axles or hubs later but my first trips were just fine.
I went up to a Load range D so that gives me 2150/tire on 3000 lb. axles suspending a 5000 lb. trailer. The numbers all work and I'm hoping that these newer Carlisles with the added nylon belt will stay together.

[JiminDenver]

With 250w you should do well depending on the amount of sun you see. Even flat our 230w panel has kept up with just a few hours of sun a day and we use the furnace a lot more now. (and fans, and TV/DVD and LEDs) This year has been a test to see how far our single grp 27 could be pushed and I thought a cloudy day when the furnace was used a lot was going to do it in but the panel being portable and taking advantage of a few brief moment of sun got us back up to float. The next morning was sunny and all was good.

West, you certainly have a boondockers special there. Using the full battery bank and solar we are pretty much only limited to how much water/food we carry. Power is never a real issue.

[69_Avion]

westend wrote:

69 Avion wrote:
I've been watching the progress over the last year. Very nice work. There is no doubt that the trailer is much better now than the day that it was originally made.
How is your solar system working out? I'm getting ready to add solar to mine. I'm thinking of a panel about the same size. It is a 250 watt, 24 volt panel from Sharp.

Thanks, I know you have considerable experience with fabrication so that's quite a compliment.

The solar system is working great. Really, my electrical needs are on the low end, even using the small electric fridge. I sized the system around the fridge, basically. I have battery powered alarms and no circuit boards or furnace blower. All the lights are LED's so the vent fan and stove fan are my next largest loads and they aren't operated much. I have the older pressure tank water system so my pump runs very little, also. Since I just installed the Victron monitor, I don't know what typical usage total is but I'd guess around 60-80AH/day. The one 235w module I use is keeping everything charged well.
Your 250W Sharp panel should give you a lot of charging power, enough to boondock indefinitely if your needs are towards the middle of average users, especially if you have a propane absorption refrigerator. Have you picked out a charge controller yet?

My usage is minimal. Excluding AC (that is what the generator is for) my largest usage of power is the furnace fan. Most of my cooking is outside so the vent hood is rarely used. In the old days, lighting was an issue but I went to 100% LEDs.
The charge controller that I'm going to use is the same one that you have. It is the Morningstar Sun Saver MPPT 15 amp controller. The best price that I have found so far is $223.60. There may be a better source out there. How is it working out so far for you? I need the MPPT because of my 24 volt panel.

[westend]

69 Avion wrote:
I've been watching the progress over the last year. Very nice work. There is no doubt that the trailer is much better now than the day that it was originally made.
How is your solar system working out? I'm getting ready to add solar to mine. I'm thinking of a panel about the same size. It is a 250 watt, 24 volt panel from Sharp.

Thanks, I know you have considerable experience with fabrication so that's quite a compliment.

The solar system is working great. Really, my electrical needs are on the low end, even using the small electric fridge. I sized the system around the fridge, basically. I have battery powered alarms and no circuit boards or furnace blower. All the lights are LED's so the vent fan and stove fan are my next largest loads and they aren't operated much. I have the older pressure tank water system so my pump runs very little, also. Since I just installed the Victron monitor, I don't know what typical usage total is but I'd guess around 60-80AH/day. The one 235w module I use is keeping everything charged well.
Your 250W Sharp panel should give you a lot of charging power, enough to boondock indefinitely if your needs are towards the middle of average users, especially if you have a propane absorption refrigerator. Have you picked out a charge controller yet?

[69_Avion]

I've been watching the progress over the last year. Very nice work. There is no doubt that the trailer is much better now than the day that it was originally made.
How is your solar system working out? I'm getting ready to add solar to mine. I'm thinking of a panel about the same size. It is a 250 watt, 24 volt panel from Sharp.