Advice on Camper Construction

[BlissRamblyn]

I am looking at getting a TC for the family. I want something that will last. I don't mind working on stuff as I have remodelled my house so projects are a big deal. I don't have a garage to store it but if what I buy isn't too tall I have a carport.

I am wondering do the older metal sided trailers from the late 70's to early 80's hold up better than the new ones?

Is stick and tin better for someone who wants to keep it a long time and doesn't mind working on them?

I like the look of the vintage campers a lot.

My biggest concern is getting something solid that with some work I can make into exactly the camper I want.

My truck is a 1995 F350 4 door, single rear wheel so weight is not a huge concern.

[jimh406]

SideHillSoup wrote:
Aluminum welds just don't stand up as good as steel welds in our case. Now because the truck suspension is taking the beating you might be ok.

Might be but who makes a steel framed TC?

[Kayteg1]

Like Flip is saying - welding is a skill.
Just like driving >> almost anybody can do it, but only few come to perfection.
Weld is thicker than the connected material, so theoretically good, well penetrated weld should be strongest point in the construction.
I never got to aluminium welding, but from what I heard, just like heat-treated steel it need to have certain temperature to make good weld.
Most of builders don't observe the criteria and cold welds, with poor penetration are just a bit better than bubble gum.

[SideHillSoup]

Aluminum is not all it is cracked up to be, especially if you do any off road traveling. About 30 + years ago a snowmobile trailer manufacturer (s) came out with a Aluminum frame snowmobile trailers. All of us that snowmobile thought what a great idea I to save on weight and the aluminum wouldn't rust like steel.
I didn't buy on at the time as I had just built a new house and I am glad I didn't. These guys constantly were having to take their trailers in to get welds repaired as they kept breaking. Now we are driving down Hwys over frost heaves, pot holes and sometimes roughy logging roads to get to the snow ( spring and fall). However if a ne trailer from more than one manufacturer is going to have broken welds on a new trailer, what might you find in a camper that is 30 plus years old?
Not one of my buddies kept those trailers and have now gone to either sled decks which are alumuim but they see less rough handling as the truck suspension takes the brunt of the jarring or steel framed trailers.
Aluminum welds just don't stand up as good as steel welds in our case. Now because the truck suspension is taking the beating you might be ok.
Good luck
Soup.

[SidecarFlip]

jimh425 wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:
MIG is speed, TIG is always quality.

Probably if you are welding it. It's certainly possible to do TIG wrong.

Moreso because of the process and weld parameters. MIG welding eliminates most operator input (so long as the parts to be joined) are prepped properly and that applies to any discipline, not just TIG.

Pre-prep is everything, especially with aluminum welding, though stainless and other exotic alloys require special prep.

Why experienced TIG welders command high wages, it their experience and expertise that command the wage paid.

I'm sure you have heard about N plants being taken offline for refuling. When they do that, they are also repairing / replacing physical components and every weld made in tha replacement process is a certified TIG weld and every weld is x rayed for quality because there is no margin for error.

Aluminum has some unique characteristics when it's joined, mainly oxidation and only a TIG machine has the capabil;ity of 'cleaning' the weld path / puddle while the weld is being formed. No MIG machine can do that. Consequently, a TIG weld on aluminum will be a stronger weld, everytime.

Problem is, of course, RV builders who are all geared for maximum profit and lowest input cost, don't want to pay for an experienced welder, especially an experienced TIG welder, when a spool gun attached MIG will do the job. It might be a marginal job but heck, it's stuck together and besides, it's under the sheathing so no one will see it...until it breaks that is.

Good example of low cost per weld is LCI components and their frame building for various RV manufacturers. All about getting it done quick with minimal labor cost. Consequently, you get missed welds, cold welds and poor join up because the mating parts are not prepped properly (as evidenced in many threads on various forums about how Lippert frames fail. Those frames are mild steel, all welded with a glue gun, nothing fancy there, but even a glue gun weld can be substandard when the welder isn't experienced at all, is pushed to be in a hurry, has no clue about joint prep and and really no proper training. You don't go from making burgers to a quality welder (in any discipline) overnight. They all take experience, training and time on the job.

IOW, you get what you pay for and in the end, the end user gets to deal with it.

[jimh406]

SidecarFlip wrote:
MIG is speed, TIG is always quality.

Probably if you are welding it. It's certainly possible to do TIG wrong.

[woodhog]

Would not an older camper with aluminum siding be much easier to work on?
Any of the new ones with Filon, you have to tear that stuff off to access the framing from the outside, with the aluminum sheets, just remove the section you want, put it back on when you are finished.

Some of those older campers are really nice inside also. Plus the price is right if you like to work on them.

[SidecarFlip]

jimh425 wrote:
I don't think any methods hold up better than others. They simply have different sets of problems to deal with. Whatever model you buy, make sure you have adequate defense against water and take care of it.

Four Wheel Campers has been around 30 years, but not under the same ownership. http://www.fourwh.com/popup-truck-camper-history/

Airstream isn't the original company either. Oh, and not all aircrafts are still in service either if you want to consider aircrafts as "it". Finally, MIG is common for aviation. Again, if you want to consider aviation as "it", you should look for a MIG welded model. 😉

Jim:

Four Wheel Campers was bought out but the original frame design (welded aluminum) was there with the original owners as well.

MIG may be common for production aviation in some areas but TIG surpasses any MIG welding. I know, I'm a certified TIG welder and I can do stuff with TIG that no MIG welder can do, or ever hope to do.

You want X-Ray quality welds in exotic metals, TIG is the only discipline available.

I own a few welders and I own a ESAB pulsed MIG that achieves a MIG weld that looks like a TIG weld but in reality it isn't. Appearances can be deceiving, especially when X-Rayed.

MIG is speed, TIG is always quality. Years ago, I started out using coathangers and an oxy-acetylene torch to weld with. TIG welding is similar but the OA is replaced with an electric arc sent through a tungsten electrode with an envelope of shielding gas and the filler material is fed into the weld puddle with your other hand. It's a high skill trade whereas MIG is low skill. Anyone can operate a MIG 'Glue Gun'. Not so with TIG. I probably shold say not anyone can run a MIG. The welds Kayteg pictured on his Fleetwood slide were cold welds did with a MIG but the heat duration was too short resulting in a cold (bird poop) weld with no joining quality.

I can take to ordinary aluminum pop cans and butt weld them together with a TIG machine, you could never do that with any MIG machine because you cannot control the amperage (low enough) to fuse the cans without destroying them. Finally most MIG machines that weld aluminum are spool gun machines. They do make push-pull torches now but spool guns are still the cost effective norm. Because of the wire diameter and amperage required, fine work is impossible.

[jimh406]

I don't think any methods hold up better than others. They simply have different sets of problems to deal with. Whatever model you buy, make sure you have adequate defense against water and take care of it.

Four Wheel Campers has been around 30 years, but not under the same ownership. http://www.fourwh.com/popup-truck-camper-history/

Airstream isn't the original company either. Oh, and not all aircrafts are still in service either if you want to consider aircrafts as "it". Finally, MIG is common for aviation. Again, if you want to consider aviation as "it", you should look for a MIG welded model. 😉

[SidecarFlip]

SidecarFlip wrote:
Winder how long Four Wheel Campers has been in business. They have always had TIG welded (not bird poop welded) frames.

I answered my own question, went and looked. Been TIG welding aluminum frames since 1987

[SidecarFlip]

Winder how long Four Wheel Campers has been in business. They have always had TIG welded (not bird poop welded) frames.

[Kayteg1]

Thinking about it, my 1969 Airstream had aluminium frame as well, so let me rephrase it.
"Aluminium frames on popular campers come on the market in 2002-2005"

[Oregun]

Kayteg1 wrote:

From my research aluminium frames come on the market in 2002-2005 depends on the brand, so I would scratch all older models.

You are a couple decades off my 86 western wilderness has an
aluminum frame.

[Kayteg1]

Ask me how many hr I already put working on my 2002 Fletwood that was not stored under the roof. When aluminium frame gives you base to work on, rotten wood frame is not repairable.
From my research aluminium frames come on the market in 2002-2005 depends on the brand, so I would scratch all older models.
Talking about carport, the AC on my basement model is reaching 12' height, so it takes pretty tall carport to fit.
I have RV garage, but door is only 10'

[SideHillSoup]

The problem we find up here in BC is that snow and rain over the years will cause damage. I think the biggest issue is people that own these old rigs don't get up on the roof and change the caulking around vents etc...
When we first got married we had a 1978 Vangaurd Camper that we bought from a buddy that had a huge shop that he stored it in.
The first thing I did was crawl up on the roof and removed and replaces every bit of caulking on the roof, which even being stored inside was worn out cracking and falling off.
I also replaced the rubber weather stripping that covers the joint where the roof meets the wall. Weather stripping
That rubber weather stripping fits in a metal trim edge that runs along the joint between the roof and side walls. This rubber had shrunk over the years and exposed screws which if left open to the elements will allow water to enter the wood of the camper. This was probably the easiest thing to change as all I had to do was pull the old one out, heat up the new one on hot water and slide it in the groove. Leave about a foot hanging out each end for a day or two so the rubber weather stripping can shrink.
We had that camper for 5 seasons before we sold it and went with a 5er.
I saw the camper around town and the guy that bought it never took care of in and if a short few years it had fallen into disrepair and is now a hunk of junk in the guys back 40. We see it every time we drive by, sad.....:(
Your biggest issue with older campers of any type is roof damage. Go inside push you finger gently up against the ceiling looking for rott. Look on the roof, don't get on it. If there are any cracks in the caulking around any of the vents or anything that comes trough the roof, run away..... fast... who knows if water has gotten in and you can't feel it with your finger when you gently push on the ceiling... :E
If that rubber weather stripping on the edge of the roof / wall is missing.... run away... again fast! also look at where the camper jacks are bolted on the camper. If you see a thing that doesn't look right, stay away. I don't know how many times over the years I see or have heard of a camper jack bracket that had allowed water to seep in through the bolt holes and the wood rotted and the camper jack fell off when lifting the camper. Lucky most older campers you can lift the camper up using only three jacks, so the rig doesn't fall over. If you see a big glob on silicon covering the mounting bracket bolts on the camper.... run again.

Finding a good 30 + year old camper is hard to find around here but they do come up every now and then.
Fixing the rest of the camper is easy, but if that roof had leaked anywhere or those camper jacks have rotten wood behind them, your going to have troubles down the road.
Good luck
Soup