Airbags

[psford]

After researching airbags,kinda got it narrowed down to the two. Leaning towards the AirLift with the jounce system in their airbags. Both AirLift ,and Firestone sell the conventional airbags, but AirLift has this new jounce system, just wondering if its even worth the extra cost over the conventional airbags .

[rhagfo]

Bedlam wrote:

rhagfo wrote:
Bags and timbirn's are one thing, even the bigger pads to engage the upper over loads early, but the device on the bottom will point load the springs, not a good thing.

The device on the bottom is almost at the end of the overload spring and has a flat surface that makes contact - I don't see this putting unusual stress on the spring pack.

http://www.torklift.com/index.php/blog/entry/truck-sag-when-towing

So the the lower over load is designed to engage gradually, and conform to the lower leaf as the load increases. The stable load changes by making the end make contact earlier and changing the way the overload leaf acts.
Reminds me of the shackle kits of the late 60's and early 70's, where the rear springs ended up up with a reverse arch. They also apply direct pressure in the middle of existing spring arch.

[Bedlam]

rhagfo wrote:
Bags and timbirn's are one thing, even the bigger pads to engage the upper over loads early, but the device on the bottom will point load the springs, not a good thing.

The device on the bottom is almost at the end of the overload spring and has a flat surface that makes contact - I don't see this putting unusual stress on the spring pack.

http://www.torklift.com/index.php/blog/entry/truck-sag-when-towing

[Bedlam]

I went for simplicity and plumbed each bag to a manual valve. It was easy for me to air up before a trip and not loose any pressure over our longest 3-week trips. Once home, I was able to reduce excess pressure until our next trip. I never found a need to adjust mid trip, so I never felt not having an on board compressor was an inconvenience (I always carry a portable compressor if I ever did need air).

[psford]

C Schomer wrote:
I don't know if all the no-drill kits replace the bump stops... I only have experience with the FS. I imagine they do otherwise you'd probably have to drill some holes. I had a RR xing from h@ll in my area and that's what I used to test the suspension changes I made. With the minimum air psi, the bags crushed solid when I hit those tracks hard. FS made the bottom brackets tall enough to clear the brake line on the left side. I bent that line out of the way and then I was able to cut the brackets down and gained another 3/4" and I couldn't bottom out on the bags anymore. For me... bending the one brake line and cutting the bottom brackets down was a better fix besides there was no internal bump stop in any of them.
I would get the kit with the internal stops just for insurance. Craig

I have to agree ,why not, the internal stops are about $50.00 more then the standard, and still might be a little cheaper then the firestones.

Now to decide on an air system. I really like the simple in cab gauge I had on previous truck, push to inflate push to deflate right on the gauge. Only drawback was running the electrical ,and airlines into the cab. I have the grab handle on the new truck, If I could find an aftermarket handle with the single gauge pillar mount I would still go with the conventional air system again. I have seen the single gauge pillar with handle, but so far have not found one for the new Rams. If I don't I will go wireless These new trucks don't afford a lot of room for mounting under the dash with the large center console.

[C_Schomer]

I don't know if all the no-drill kits replace the bump stops... I only have experience with the FS. I imagine they do otherwise you'd probably have to drill some holes. I had a RR xing from h@ll in my area and that's what I used to test the suspension changes I made. With the minimum air psi, the bags crushed solid when I hit those tracks hard. FS made the bottom brackets tall enough to clear the brake line on the left side. I bent that line out of the way and then I was able to cut the brackets down and gained another 3/4" and I couldn't bottom out on the bags anymore. For me... bending the one brake line and cutting the bottom brackets down was a better fix besides there was no internal bump stop in any of them.
I would get the kit with the internal stops just for insurance. Craig

[Bedlam]

Firestone sells two different models for the Ford and it may be the same for Ram. One model goes under the frame rail and replaces the OEM bump stop - This is used with fifth wheel hitches so they do not interfere with the under bed mounts. The other model attaches to the outboard side of the frame rail and sits on top of the leaf pack. If you choose the Firestone bags, pay attention to which kit you are pricing. I feel that not having an internal jounce should eliminate Firestone if you need a setup that does not interfere with your hitch.

[Housted]

To me the internal bump stops are redundant. If you follow the mfg. instructions and always keep 5-10 pounds in the bags they won't hit.
I have the wireless auto compressor set for 8 pounds when empty. It checks the pressure every time I start the truck.

JMHO

Housted

[psford]

C Schomer wrote:
And I was just curious why rhagfo made the comment about band aids when he has some mods on his OWN truck.
I've used drill kit bags on a truck and I mounted them so the axle would bottom out on the rubber stops before the bags smashed completely. My 03 has the bags that replace the rubber stops and the bags would bottom out until I modded the brackets to give the bags more travel.
The bumpers inside the bags would be a waste of money if they aren't needed but I don't know if you can get enough info (dimensions) from the mfgr to determine if you need them before buying them and seeing for yourself.
After having both kinds... if I had the choice, and that depends on the truck application, between a drill and a no-drill kit, I would MUCH rather have the drill kit. If a no-drill kit that replaces the rubber stops is your only choice, I would say you probably can't go wrong with the internal stops. Craig

As far as I can tell all they are selling with both brands are the no drill. To me it makes sense to go with the internal stops .

[C_Schomer]

And I was just curious why rhagfo made the comment about band aids when he has some mods on his OWN truck.
I've used drill kit bags on a truck and I mounted them so the axle would bottom out on the rubber stops before the bags smashed completely. My 03 has the bags that replace the rubber stops and the bags would bottom out until I modded the brackets to give the bags more travel.
The bumpers inside the bags would be a waste of money if they aren't needed but I don't know if you can get enough info (dimensions) from the mfgr to determine if you need them before buying them and seeing for yourself.
After having both kinds... if I had the choice, and that depends on the truck application, between a drill and a no-drill kit, I would MUCH rather have the drill kit. If a no-drill kit that replaces the rubber stops is your only choice, I would say you probably can't go wrong with the internal stops. Craig

[rhagfo]

psford wrote:


I started this thread to get some opinions on a couple brands of airbags, I never asked or needed your opinion on whether I need them or not, nor care what your opinion is. If you want to discuss your trucks capabilities or what it can or can't do start your own thread

On the other hand if you have run the two particular brands I asked about , and would like to add something other then unwanted opinions ,feel free.

Correct you are and I apologize for hijacking your post. :S

In my opinion it would which set you get the best price on as the performance is equal.

[kzspree320]

I think both Firestone Ride Rites and Air Lift are good. I put on Firestones a couple of months ago. I got them for my 2008 Ram 2500 for $284 after using a 20% off coupon code at Autoanything. Pretty easy to install with no drilling and so far so good. A few days ago I got an e-mail coupon code for 22% off. Try "thnks22" it may or may not work for you if your not a returning customer. I don't think either of these is a bad choice. Good luck. Keith

[psford]

rhagfo wrote:

C Schomer wrote:
Sure is nice to have a TV that doesn't need bags or any of those other band aids!
There's a difference between need and want. Why did you put the e-brake, power puck and bilsteins on your 3/4T? Craig

Yes, as I look to solve the root cause of a towing issue.

I see way too many times people posting the "FIX" for chucking is "Air Bags"!

Air bags don't solve the problem, they just mask it. I also had a "chucking issue" early on with this 5er.
It was towing about 5" nose High, at 255,000 TV still had original shocks (Mfg date 1999") they still were decent unloaded. 5er didn't have shocks at all.

Well, Great shocks on the TV, Shocks on the 5er, pin box raised to lower the nose (now about 2" out of level).
About two weeks after the final step of installing shocks on the 5er, we needed to tow about four miles of Old concrete road in eastern Oregon. While one could hear the rhythm of the joints, but zero chucking.

Sure if I wanted to tow 16,000# with this rig it would likely sag, if it did I would likely go with the StableLoad upper over load as I currently don't even engage them!
If I use the thought process others use, I could likely put another easy 1,000# on my rear axle. Currently I have about 5,500# on the 6,084# rear axle. So I already have close to 600# of unused axle rating. I also have the optional 265/75-16 E tires with a 3,415# rating. That could equate to a 6,830# axle rating, that is like 1,300# of unused capacity. :S

I started this thread to get some opinions on a couple brands of airbags, I never asked or needed your opinion on whether I need them or not, nor care what your opinion is. If you want to discuss your trucks capabilities or what it can or can't do start your own thread

On the other hand if you have run the two particular brands I asked about , and would like to add something other then unwanted opinions ,feel free.

[rhagfo]

C Schomer wrote:
Sure is nice to have a TV that doesn't need bags or any of those other band aids!
There's a difference between need and want. Why did you put the e-brake, power puck and bilsteins on your 3/4T? Craig

Yes, as I look to solve the root cause of a towing issue.

I see way too many times people posting the "FIX" for chucking is "Air Bags"!

Air bags don't solve the problem, they just mask it. I also had a "chucking issue" early on with this 5er.
It was towing about 5" nose High, at 255,000 TV still had original shocks (Mfg date 1999") they still were decent unloaded. 5er didn't have shocks at all.

Well, Great shocks on the TV, Shocks on the 5er, pin box raised to lower the nose (now about 2" out of level).
About two weeks after the final step of installing shocks on the 5er, we needed to tow about four miles of Old concrete road in eastern Oregon. While one could hear the rhythm of the joints, but zero chucking.

Sure if I wanted to tow 16,000# with this rig it would likely sag, if it did I would likely go with the StableLoad upper over load as I currently don't even engage them!
If I use the thought process others use, I could likely put another easy 1,000# on my rear axle. Currently I have about 5,500# on the 6,084# rear axle. So I already have close to 600# of unused axle rating. I also have the optional 265/75-16 E tires with a 3,415# rating. That could equate to a 6,830# axle rating, that is like 1,300# of unused capacity. :S

[C_Schomer]

Sure is nice to have a TV that doesn't need bags or any of those other band aids!
There's a difference between need and want. Why did you put the e-brake, power puck and bilsteins on your 3/4T? Craig