Bison electric truck

[colliehauler]

It looks like a Canadian mfg Havelaar has plans to build a electric truck called the Bison.

[John___Angela]

westernrvparkowner wrote:
Why so down on Hydrogen fuel cells? Toyota and Honda are already has them for sale in California. The Honda has a range of over 350 miles. Refueling takes 3 to 5 minutes. The infrastructure for nationwide refueling could use existing service stations without the need to upgrade the entire electrical grid. Yes, hydrogen has a few problems but they either exist with other technologies (requires electrical power generated traditionally to separate the Hydrogen and oxygen thru electrolysis) or are solvable ( bulk hydrogen is very explosive to transport and hydrogen has a PR problem due to the Hindenburg). I see it as a step beyond battery power.

The grid is becoming less of a concern than originally thought as the usage history and how communities are adapting in various countries gets clearer. In North America the average single EV household is seeing there usage go up by what an average water heater would use on an annual basis. It is thought that even much of this consumption will be offset by the gradual movement to more efficient appliances, LED bulbs etc. In households wih two EVs (like ours) obviously there is double the consumption. Having said that, we did a fairly extensive modernization of appliances and LED's etc (thermostats, smart home devices) when we replaced our last fossil fuel car. Our power bill has gone up maybe 6 or 8 dollars per month total and we "fuel" two vehicles. (we pay on average 109 bucks per month on our power bill). And having said that we drive probably less annual distance than the average person (don't really know what the average is)). Maybe 12000 to 16000 KM a year for us.

It is also becoming apparent that more and more households with electric vehicles are augmenting with solar. This trend is starting to show itself in Europe, North America and China although a lot depends where the power comes from in each area. Water power regions with cheap hydro (like us) are less likely to switch to solar. Coal is fast becoming one of the most expensive sources of power and the trend to the home level solar or micro grid level is reflecting that. Kinda funny. In one of the US states, the Kentucky coal museum recently switched to all local generated solar power as the local coal generated utility was too expensive. Sign of the times.

[John___Angela]

westernrvparkowner wrote:
Why so down on Hydrogen fuel cells? Toyota and Honda are already has them for sale in California. The Honda has a range of over 350 miles. Refueling takes 3 to 5 minutes. The infrastructure for nationwide refueling could use existing service stations without the need to upgrade the entire electrical grid. Yes, hydrogen has a few problems but they either exist with other technologies (requires electrical power generated traditionally to separate the Hydrogen and oxygen thru electrolysis) or are solvable ( bulk hydrogen is very explosive to transport and hydrogen has a PR problem due to the Hindenburg). I see it as a step beyond battery power.

I don't actually know. I know toyota tossed in the towel last month on up scaling production. I don't know about Honda. I have read that the cost per mile is higher than BEV's. I'm not really up on hydrogen vehicles. Do they still burn it in an internal combustion engine or is it a fuel cell type thing. I think the big advantage of electric is that it is already in every house. As far as the grid: the average EV household uses the equivalent of an electric dryer more than a non EV household. Just to give you an idea. When we moved to our townhouse we installed all LED lights everywhere and have all modern appliances. We had a stove plug put in the garage to plug the cars into. Our power bill is about the same as the previous owners and we fuel two EV's. Our bill is about 109 bucks per month in the summer with AC. Power is cheap in BC, 100 percent hydro etc. it will obviously depend where the person lives as well as how many mikes you do. We only travel about 12000 to 16000 km a year. Cheap maintenance though. We bought a jug if washer fluid two years ago. It's almost empty but that's the only maintenance for two vehicles for almost two years. (We only had the one since last year though)

[agesilaus]

We have had a number of threads on H2 fuel vehicles, the problems are that:

1) Hydrogen is just an energy storage material, that is you store power from some electrical source in compressed H2. It is not a fuel.

2) Compressed H2 has a very poor energy density, 0.07 compared to 1.00 for gasoline. Even cryogenic liquid H2 isn't that much better



So if you could use 1 gasoline tank truck to supply a gas station you would need over 14 equivalent trucks to supply a H2 station. Great for the truck drivers union tho.

[westernrvparkow]

Why so down on Hydrogen fuel cells? Toyota and Honda are already has them for sale in California. The Honda has a range of over 350 miles. Refueling takes 3 to 5 minutes. The infrastructure for nationwide refueling could use existing service stations without the need to upgrade the entire electrical grid. Yes, hydrogen has a few problems but they either exist with other technologies (requires electrical power generated traditionally to separate the Hydrogen and oxygen thru electrolysis) or are solvable ( bulk hydrogen is very explosive to transport and hydrogen has a PR problem due to the Hindenburg). I see it as a step beyond battery power.

[agesilaus]

"Coming back to the original topic. I would think a EV service truck would find a market. "

I agree with that, a local service company could probably make use of electric work trucks. They already provide a market for LPG powered vehicles and electric is the same sort of short range provider. However the electric vehicle would have to be economically superior to a fossil fuel powered vehicle. Tho some companies are willing to take a hit in the wallet to play in the greenie theater scene.

[John___Angela]

agesilaus wrote:
" B class motorhome would have to have a solid 300 KM for us though for our RVing style. Interesting times."

Since most folks aim for 300 miles or 500 km as a more or less desirable daily travel target, I don't think that would sell many vehicles. With the unreliability of of maximum range claims from manufacturers I think they'd have to up that to at least 400 or 450 miles or 700-750 km to be sellable.

Yah. Not everyone travels the same. For us those kinda ranges would be a waste as we stop pretty often, walk the dog, make a coffee etc. But I know some people like to go for hours at a time. Too each his own. I'm guessing that with the shorter distances in Europe they would be good candidates for van based EV RV's. Their charging infrastructure is also more developed although the campgrounds have less robust power hookups.

There are some interesting new battery techs out there that although are probably a decade out will probably benefit the EV RV industry. Other than B Class van based RV's I think it will be 6 or 7 years before we see bigger EV RV rigs. Having said that, BEV city busses are getting common place especially in China.

Coming back to the original topic. I would think a EV service truck would find a market.

[agesilaus]

" B class motorhome would have to have a solid 300 KM for us though for our RVing style. Interesting times."

Since most folks aim for 300 miles or 500 km as a more or less desirable daily travel target, I don't think that would sell many vehicles. With the unreliability of of maximum range claims from manufacturers I think they'd have to up that to at least 400 or 450 miles or 700-750 km to be sellable.

[John___Angela]

agesilaus wrote:
The problem is this: chemical batteries (lithium for one) are already operating near their electrochemical theoretical limit. There aren't going to be any future batteries that are half the size and weight and twice the energy storage capacity for example. They may improve charging speed and other factors like that however.

Any serious improvements will come from a different technology if any. Running charging strips down the center of highways or something like that. Hydrogen is not likely to be the breakthru tech tho.

Agree on the hydrogen thing. Electricity is everywhere and its easy to improve the environmental impact of the producing source as well as being able to produce it locally at the household or driveway level. But yah, although the density is improving with the lithium approach it is supposedly within about 30 percent of the best it will be. Having said that for many light truck and car applications it is already fine. Existing 400 km ranges for EV's are already fine for many and really even our 200 KM range is more than we need. B class motorhome would have to have a solid 300 KM for us though for our RVing style. Interesting times.

[agesilaus]

The problem is this: chemical batteries (lithium for one) are already operating near their electrochemical theoretical limit. There aren't going to be any future batteries that are half the size and weight and twice the energy storage capacity for example. They may improve charging speed and other factors like that however.

Any serious improvements will come from a different technology if any. Running charging strips down the center of highways or something like that. Hydrogen is not likely to be the breakthru tech tho.

[John___Angela]

It is interesting to follow the development of the electric light truck. As someone else mentioned you have to walk before you run. Tesla X SUV has a 4500 pound tow capacity and can turn zero to sixty pulling its rated load. There is a 35 to 40 percent range hit though so it would need to be someone who wants to be able to pull a smaller trailer to the local lakes or whatever. Probably less of a range hit with a pop up though as it is more streamlined not to mention lighter. like anything else, it will suit some not all lifestyles.

We both drive electric vehicles and are watching both the EV truck and van development. We lean towards a B class van based motorhome at this point but I suspect the EV truck and Van will share chassis tech just like they do now. We could live with a 300 KM range in a 22 foot Road Trek type motorhome. EV fast chargers are getting more plentiful at least in the places we go. Metered charging at a campground for recharging. It would work for us but obviously not for every body.

One of the things we have noticed is that many of the existing DC fast chargers would be tight or hard to access for even a 24 foot unit. As well, the 50KWH Chademo charging rates are a tad slow for the bigger batteries an EV based RV would need. However lately we are seeing better accessibility to at least some fast chargers and the rates are now at 125 KWH rates for the latest installations. One step at a time I suppose. A fully electric EV Roadtrek would be kinda cool. Hard for us EV drivers to go back to anything that you pour gas or diesel in to make it go. 🙂 Till them we'll just keep driving the big Cummins based motorhome. 🙂

Here's a shot of a new Chademo/CCS in Mountain View. Our local single Chademo/CCS is getting busier. This would be overkill for us but a few years down the road you never know.

[colliehauler]

Huntindog wrote:

colliehauler wrote:
This thread was about small pickups NOT LONGHAUL TRUCKS OR HEAVY-DUTY PICKUPS. My point was this could be used as a commuter and possibly pull a pop-up to the local campground which a lot of people do.

Is it financially feasible who knows? Right now fuel is cheep, a category 5 hurricane to the gulf or a war could change that overnight.

I brought this up because I thought it was significant of the first modern-day electric pickup, (that I know of).

Ummmm. I was reffering to short haul delvery trucks... 18 wheelers, but not long haul.. They would fare even worse. No matter, the subject is relavent.
Lighten up. Several companies are actively working on bringing to market such trucks.... Of course they like others in the electric car biz are not actually profitable in the conventional sense.. Our GOVT. has been propping them up.

If they had to actually turn a real profit.... They would all be gone.

I wish I could lighten up I need to loose a few pounds. Like I said earlier I will probably be driving my old Diesels for many years to come.

[Huntindog]

colliehauler wrote:
This thread was about small pickups NOT LONGHAUL TRUCKS OR HEAVY-DUTY PICKUPS. My point was this could be used as a commuter and possibly pull a pop-up to the local campground which a lot of people do.

Is it financially feasible who knows? Right now fuel is cheep, a category 5 hurricane to the gulf or a war could change that overnight.

I brought this up because I thought it was significant of the first modern-day electric pickup, (that I know of).

Ummmm. I was reffering to short haul delvery trucks... 18 wheelers, but not long haul.. They would fare even worse. No matter, the subject is relavent.
Lighten up. Several companies are actively working on bringing to market such trucks.... Of course they like others in the electric car biz are not actually profitable in the conventional sense.. Our GOVT. has been propping them up.

If they had to actually turn a real profit.... They would all be gone.

[colliehauler]

This thread was about small pickups NOT LONGHAUL TRUCKS OR HEAVY-DUTY PICKUPS. My point was this could be used as a commuter and possibly pull a pop-up to the local campground which a lot of people do.

Is it financially feasible who knows? Right now fuel is cheep, a category 5 hurricane to the gulf or a war could change that overnight.

I brought this up because I thought it was significant of the first modern-day electric pickup, (that I know of).

[Huntindog]

I deal with commercial trucks all the time at work.
Most all of them are on the road 24/7... With different drivers. They are so expensive that most companies cannot justify them sitting around idle. They need to earn their keep.

So any truck that will take hours to refuel,,,, isn't going to cut it.