Buying a used diesel

[wanderingaimles]

I have never been a huge fan of diesels but find myself looking for one now.
I am putting the house back on the market after having pulled it for a year to help out my daughter. We are hitting the road in a couple of months, and dont want to wait for closing, and so am going to buy a used diesel 3/4 or one ton pickup.
Will be pulling about a 14k loaded weight 5er, and if a 5er is what we decide we want to stay with, will buy new in a year or so.

I have always had Fords or Rams, but am not married to any brands, the only diesel I had was an old 1994 Superduty dually. Hated the noise, but maybe it wont seem so bad now since my hearing is going.

Of the trucks in the 2008 to 2014 range, what models in particular had issues. I was going to spend around $25k and no duals so these seem to be my choice slot age wise. In particular at the moment I have been following a 6.4 ford.
I know one of the Fords had a bad rep, think it was a 6.0, am unsure of any others in particular to avoid.

Yeah , I know, igniting the old Ford vs Chevy vs Ram arguments but not sure how else to ask without without fanning some flames.

[hondapro]

Grit dog wrote:
IdaD and Fish hit it on the head.
Aside from miles maint and condition of the ENTIRE truck, not just the diesel, here's the list of what I would buy. Or most prefer to buy.
06-07 LBZ Duramax
06-07 Cummins but only with 6 speed manual and good clutch
09-10 Dmax or 09-12 Cummins still prefer Dmax here for the trans and both will get poorer mileage with dpf in tact. Caveat with these is prepare to possible spend $ on exhaust or spend $ on deleting it. Personally I'd take either of these deleted but like Fish, wouldn't get one if I couldn't delete it.
'11-up Dmax
'13-14 and up Ram but prefer '15 or newer due to some improvements
'12- up Powerstroke but prefer '15 or newer due to improvements

$25k is a tough price point to hit without taking some risk on miles or age, IMO. At this price it boils down to finding the right truck that was cared for well. 150k + miles is going to be the range you're looking at in the newer rigs and there's plenty of people who buy a new truck, do nothing but oil changes until parts start needing replaced (like say 150k miles) and then sell a nice looking truck that has a pile of repairs looming.

Grit is spot on with this advice.

[FishOnOne]

deltabravo wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
A lot of these trucks would fill the crankcase with diesel from the regen process

First time I've heard of that problem.

I've had my 2009 for 10 years and have frequented a lot of Duramax forums.
Mine doesn't get much use as a daily driver, hence the reason it only has about 63,000 miles in it.

I'll take a PRE-DEF truck over a newer own with a CP4, which is a ticking time bomb.

Yes it was a common problem hence the reason for GM adding the 9th injector which resolved this issue. There was a lot of discussions about peoples trucks "making oil". The problem was more significant for owners who drove their trucks a lot in town and the trucks were constantly regenning. It was an issue for the 6.7 cummins and the 6.4PSD as well.

[blofgren]

Grit dog wrote:
Time to quit.
I can't even tell who's yelling st who now, lol.
6.0, 6.4 flower jokes and 6.5 Turdbo diesels sucked.
Early 6.7 Cummins didn't, unless you didn't have the cajones to delete them, in which case, you're your own worst enemy. Same with any pre def diesel pickup. That problem wasn't the engine, it was the schitt bolted to the exhaust and the intake.
Go to bed kids, your drunk!

LOL, too funny!

[deltabravo]

FishOnOne wrote:
A lot of these trucks would fill the crankcase with diesel from the regen process

First time I've heard of that problem.

I've had my 2009 for 10 years and have frequented a lot of Duramax forums.
Mine doesn't get much use as a daily driver, hence the reason it only has about 63,000 miles in it.

I'll take a PRE-DEF truck over a newer own with a CP4, which is a ticking time bomb.

[Bird_Freak]

ksss wrote:

Bird Freak wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

ksss wrote:

Bird Freak wrote:

shum02 wrote:

IdaD wrote:
A few points to ponder.

- 6.0 and 6.4 Ford diesels are junk, and are priced accordingly used. A low price does not always equate to a good value. There are options for "bulletproofing" these engines but I don't know what they cost or how effective those preventative fixes are.

I know itès weird but I have almost 300k miles on my 6.0L, stock head bolts too. Weird.

All things in Ièd avoid the 6.4L as well even though it is a very close cousin to the 6.0L. PITA with 1st gen new emission gear. Compared to it my 6.0L has almost none.

With ANY used diesel that is out of warranty be prepared to either work on it yourself or have some room on a CC because NONE of them are cheap to have work done on, especially at a dealer.

I'm still driving my JUNK 6.0 also with the stock head bolts. Sure are a lot of these junk engines on the road.

And many more pulled off the road. If your still driving your JUNK 6.0, that is your own fault. You 6.0/6.4 apologist kill me. I have had a 6.2 that I sold at 225K a '93 6.5 with just under 300K when I sold it and a 98 6.5 that I sold at 100K. My personal experience with all three of these engines was positive from a mechanical standpoint. None had anything substantial done to them. However I can acknowledge that outside of my own experience, they weren't good engines. As bad as they were, they weren't the focus of a billion dollar lawsuit. The 6.0/6.4 were/are JUNK just as you said. You still driving one doesn't allow you to rewrite history. Take a poll from previous owners and see what the masses think. Taking a poll of yourself isn't really a poll, its YOUR experience, just like the Detroit diesels were MINE. Statistically not revelant. Take the time and read the actual lawsuit, it outlines in great detail the issues on both sides of the suit. The aftermarket doesn't spin up (Bullet Proof Diesel) for no reason, if there were no issues the term Bullet Proofing would not exist. I have yet to see a Cummins, Duramax or Ford 6.7 Bullet Proof diesel pop up.

Not sure why you have to attack the man. His experience with his truck is a good one and so was mine. So be it!

I will say this... I sure see a lot more 6.0 PSD on the road today vs those first gen DPF equipped 6.7 cummins, Duramax, and 6.4 Power Strokes. Must be a reason!

Even my BIL fell victom of a 09 6.7 cummins that he sold after 9 months of ownership due to too many problems with the emissions. He wished he kept his 04 6.0 PSD after that experience. After he unloaded that truck to a willing buyer he purchased a 07 Dodge 5.9 cummins in Arizona, flew there to pick it up and drove it back. That was one hell of a experience after owning that POS 09 6.7 cummins.

He did later move on to purchase a new '16 6.7 PSD truck and it's given him good reasonably good service for a DPF equipped truck. I think this truck restored his fate on the DPF equipped trucks for now.

BTW... I know and man who had a Chevy 6.5TD and it gave him good service up to around ~350k miles and my BIL had a 98 Chevy with a 6.5TD and it gave him good service as well. No big deal!

Thanks Fish.
This guy has a habit of reading what he wants and not really reading what the post said. He then proceeds to go off the deep end with his foolish rants.

Foolish rant? Really? What is foolish abo (ut it? Your advocating a 6.0, I find that extremely foolish.

If you can read and comprehend what you read you would see I never advocated a 6.0. I made two true statements that were, I am still driving mine and there are a lot of them out there. PERIOD! You assumed the rest and yes that was a foolish rant and attack on your part.

[Grit_dog]

Time to quit.
I can't even tell who's yelling st who now, lol.
6.0, 6.4 flower jokes and 6.5 Turdbo diesels sucked.
Early 6.7 Cummins didn't, unless you didn't have the cajones to delete them, in which case, you're your own worst enemy. Same with any pre def diesel pickup. That problem wasn't the engine, it was the schitt bolted to the exhaust and the intake.
Go to bed kids, your drunk!

[ksss]

Bird Freak wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

ksss wrote:

Bird Freak wrote:

shum02 wrote:

IdaD wrote:
A few points to ponder.

- 6.0 and 6.4 Ford diesels are junk, and are priced accordingly used. A low price does not always equate to a good value. There are options for "bulletproofing" these engines but I don't know what they cost or how effective those preventative fixes are.

I know itès weird but I have almost 300k miles on my 6.0L, stock head bolts too. Weird.

All things in Ièd avoid the 6.4L as well even though it is a very close cousin to the 6.0L. PITA with 1st gen new emission gear. Compared to it my 6.0L has almost none.

With ANY used diesel that is out of warranty be prepared to either work on it yourself or have some room on a CC because NONE of them are cheap to have work done on, especially at a dealer.

I'm still driving my JUNK 6.0 also with the stock head bolts. Sure are a lot of these junk engines on the road.

And many more pulled off the road. If your still driving your JUNK 6.0, that is your own fault. You 6.0/6.4 apologist kill me. I have had a 6.2 that I sold at 225K a '93 6.5 with just under 300K when I sold it and a 98 6.5 that I sold at 100K. My personal experience with all three of these engines was positive from a mechanical standpoint. None had anything substantial done to them. However I can acknowledge that outside of my own experience, they weren't good engines. As bad as they were, they weren't the focus of a billion dollar lawsuit. The 6.0/6.4 were/are JUNK just as you said. You still driving one doesn't allow you to rewrite history. Take a poll from previous owners and see what the masses think. Taking a poll of yourself isn't really a poll, its YOUR experience, just like the Detroit diesels were MINE. Statistically not revelant. Take the time and read the actual lawsuit, it outlines in great detail the issues on both sides of the suit. The aftermarket doesn't spin up (Bullet Proof Diesel) for no reason, if there were no issues the term Bullet Proofing would not exist. I have yet to see a Cummins, Duramax or Ford 6.7 Bullet Proof diesel pop up.

Not sure why you have to attack the man. His experience with his truck is a good one and so was mine. So be it!

I will say this... I sure see a lot more 6.0 PSD on the road today vs those first gen DPF equipped 6.7 cummins, Duramax, and 6.4 Power Strokes. Must be a reason!

Even my BIL fell victom of a 09 6.7 cummins that he sold after 9 months of ownership due to too many problems with the emissions. He wished he kept his 04 6.0 PSD after that experience. After he unloaded that truck to a willing buyer he purchased a 07 Dodge 5.9 cummins in Arizona, flew there to pick it up and drove it back. That was one hell of a experience after owning that POS 09 6.7 cummins.

He did later move on to purchase a new '16 6.7 PSD truck and it's given him good reasonably good service for a DPF equipped truck. I think this truck restored his fate on the DPF equipped trucks for now.

BTW... I know and man who had a Chevy 6.5TD and it gave him good service up to around ~350k miles and my BIL had a 98 Chevy with a 6.5TD and it gave him good service as well. No big deal!

Thanks Fish.
This guy has a habit of reading what he wants and not really reading what the post said. He then proceeds to go off the deep end with his foolish rants.

Foolish rant? Really? What is foolish about it? Your advocating a 6.0, I find that extremely foolish.

[Grit_dog]

Matter of fact, we bought my sister in WI a 2008 Chevy last year, from out here.
Her recent comments are, I see so many cars like mine here that are already rusting out...and the clear coat on the wheels on her car is not even pitted or peeling yet!

[Grit_dog]

^ This.
And for folks who haven't lived/experienced multiple climates and aren't very perceptive to how they affect vehicles, this could be hard to totally comprehend.
But examples. The wife's now 13 year old 07 Ram. Has spent 4 winters in "harsh" areas and 9 in a "gentle" area (coastal WA). Friggin beautiful, no rust whatsoever on the body and a pretty clean undercarriage ( partly due to my upkeep of that, partly to the daily pressure wash on western wa roads for 6 mo a year!)
Also, 19 year old vehicle we just bought for a commuter rig, dubbed the "snack wagon" cause the wife and kids end up eating several meals a week in it commuting to sports.
NO body rust, original exhaust system in good shape still and actually popped one of the brake calipers off that appears to be original pads or very least hadn't been off in a long time with no issues.
Compare to vehicles back in the salt belt of the US, similar effects as Alberta, 10 years old daily drivers, you wish you could trade it in before the cancer starts dropping parts on the side of the road, 15 years and your custom brown fender wells are fully developed. 20 years and you can literally feel it rusting away as you drive down the road.

There are just too many used vehicles that are from gentle climates to consider buying one form a harsh climate, IMO. Especially with ones ability to search vehicles for sale all over the continent. Once you've dealt with repairing rust buckets, a road trip and or a plane ticket for the right vehicle, if necessary, seems like a good option.

[blofgren]

Grit dog wrote:
True ^, but we got a couple trucks, 2012 / 2013 ish vintage from up in the oil patch. They ARE rusty pos's.
Granted they weren't living the easy life in grampas garage. They are work trucks, but yeah, definitely not a kind environment for vehicles.

I agree that a sample of one is not representative. That said, there is a used truck dealer about 3 minutes up the road from me that specializes in used Alberta trucks. There are plenty of late model trucks in there of all makes that are plenty rusty. The bodies on some of them don't look too bad, but get down and look at the undercarriage and :E

And it just so happens that is where this fellow I was speaking of bought his last truck. He now has a Gen 3 5.9L Cummins that spent it's whole life on the coast that still looks like new.

[Grit_dog]

True ^, but we got a couple trucks, 2012 / 2013 ish vintage from up in the oil patch. They ARE rusty pos's.
Granted they weren't living the easy life in grampas garage. They are work trucks, but yeah, definitely not a kind environment for vehicles.

[4x4ord]

blofgren wrote:
No offence intended but I would avoid a high mileage Alberta truck like the plague. A coworker of mine bought a Ram 5.9L Cummins a few years ago from there and by the time he took care of all the issues, there was no savings to be had over a cherry truck from the coast. Plus he still ended up with a rust bucket that he ended up dumping a couple of years later.

On the other hand my son in law is driving a GMC 6.5 turbo diesel that I bought new in 1993 which has never had any body work done to it and there is close to no rust on it. I've got another son in law driving a 2006 F350 with the the dreaded 6.0 liter in it that has about 500,000 miles on it. He bought it off his father who owned it since new. Although it is on its second engine it is still a very good looking and reliable truck. Maybe the conclusion you should have drawn is that you should avoid a Ram Cummins like the plague.;)

PS. Don't get me wrong..... I'm not suggesting that the 6.0 litre or the 6.5 are good engines, nor am I suggesting that someone should avoid a Ram like the plague. What I am saying is that a sample of one means nothing.

[Bird_Freak]

FishOnOne wrote:

ksss wrote:

Bird Freak wrote:

shum02 wrote:

IdaD wrote:
A few points to ponder.

- 6.0 and 6.4 Ford diesels are junk, and are priced accordingly used. A low price does not always equate to a good value. There are options for "bulletproofing" these engines but I don't know what they cost or how effective those preventative fixes are.

I know itès weird but I have almost 300k miles on my 6.0L, stock head bolts too. Weird.

All things in Ièd avoid the 6.4L as well even though it is a very close cousin to the 6.0L. PITA with 1st gen new emission gear. Compared to it my 6.0L has almost none.

With ANY used diesel that is out of warranty be prepared to either work on it yourself or have some room on a CC because NONE of them are cheap to have work done on, especially at a dealer.

I'm still driving my JUNK 6.0 also with the stock head bolts. Sure are a lot of these junk engines on the road.

And many more pulled off the road. If your still driving your JUNK 6.0, that is your own fault. You 6.0/6.4 apologist kill me. I have had a 6.2 that I sold at 225K a '93 6.5 with just under 300K when I sold it and a 98 6.5 that I sold at 100K. My personal experience with all three of these engines was positive from a mechanical standpoint. None had anything substantial done to them. However I can acknowledge that outside of my own experience, they weren't good engines. As bad as they were, they weren't the focus of a billion dollar lawsuit. The 6.0/6.4 were/are JUNK just as you said. You still driving one doesn't allow you to rewrite history. Take a poll from previous owners and see what the masses think. Taking a poll of yourself isn't really a poll, its YOUR experience, just like the Detroit diesels were MINE. Statistically not revelant. Take the time and read the actual lawsuit, it outlines in great detail the issues on both sides of the suit. The aftermarket doesn't spin up (Bullet Proof Diesel) for no reason, if there were no issues the term Bullet Proofing would not exist. I have yet to see a Cummins, Duramax or Ford 6.7 Bullet Proof diesel pop up.

Not sure why you have to attack the man. His experience with his truck is a good one and so was mine. So be it!

I will say this... I sure see a lot more 6.0 PSD on the road today vs those first gen DPF equipped 6.7 cummins, Duramax, and 6.4 Power Strokes. Must be a reason!

Even my BIL fell victom of a 09 6.7 cummins that he sold after 9 months of ownership due to too many problems with the emissions. He wished he kept his 04 6.0 PSD after that experience. After he unloaded that truck to a willing buyer he purchased a 07 Dodge 5.9 cummins in Arizona, flew there to pick it up and drove it back. That was one hell of a experience after owning that POS 09 6.7 cummins.

He did later move on to purchase a new '16 6.7 PSD truck and it's given him good reasonably good service for a DPF equipped truck. I think this truck restored his fate on the DPF equipped trucks for now.

BTW... I know and man who had a Chevy 6.5TD and it gave him good service up to around ~350k miles and my BIL had a 98 Chevy with a 6.5TD and it gave him good service as well. No big deal!

Thanks Fish.
This guy has a habit of reading what he wants and not really reading what the post said. He then proceeds to go off the deep end with his foolish rants.

[blofgren]

No offence intended but I would avoid a high mileage Alberta truck like the plague. A coworker of mine bought a Ram 5.9L Cummins a few years ago from there and by the time he took care of all the issues, there was no savings to be had over a cherry truck from the coast. Plus he still ended up with a rust bucket that he ended up dumping a couple of years later.