Chevrolet exits all ICE production by 2035

[patperry2766]

Chevy exits ICE engines

Hopefully the other manufacturers won't follow suit.

Being from Texas and starting to thaw out from our latest freeze of the century, I don't see how our current power grid can support all the new EV planned for in the future, but I don't recall anything ever being addressed on this subject.

[Lantley]

fj12ryder wrote:
"The mods can put it where they want. But it is ultimately a towing topic."

No, not really. It could be a towing topic in 10 or so years but right now it should be put in the "EV Speculation" forum. There are no EV tow vehicles that are actually real world useful, and don't appear to be around in the near, 5 years or less, future.

And if Chevy can't produce an EV tow vehicle, and Ford and Ram are still producing diesel/gas RV's, it would seem unlikely that Chevy will just bow out of a lucrative market. Of course it will depend on how lucrative that market is.

Some of you guys want to shoot the messenger because you don't want to hear the message. You can place this post under any forum you wish.
It doesn't change the fact that EV's are here and and are a total automotive game changer like nothing we have seen in our lifetime.
No they don't have it all figured out but Chevy is not the only company to proclaim they will stop making ICE vehicles.
Meanwhile rather than embracing the future many are denying the EV revolution is here.
Drive a Tesla you will believe. Prior to driving a Tesla I was no EV proponent. I am not looking to buy an EV and I am not a strong believer in climate change.
Nevertheless I took a joy ride in a buddy's Tesla and now I get it!. The ICE is obsolete. We no longer need all those moving parts, all the heat, all the exhaust to propel a vehicle. The EV has left the drawing board and is lose on the streets.
Can we take a 1000 mile trip? Or tow a 10K trailer? Currently we don't have all those answer but a lot of development will occur in 15 years.
I urge all you naysayers to step into the future and just check out a Tesla, there are a lot of bright minds on this forum and reading this thread that simply need to take a closer look at what is possible and happening with EV's right now. Once you take a non biased view of EV you will be excited about the future vs. denying that change is even possible.
Not only is it possible its already happening

[nickthehunter]

People tow thousands of pound wagons with horses also, that doesn’t mean it’s practical, just means it’s possible. Would work out fine for getting a two week supply of groceries.

[RoyJ]

Groover wrote:
I have never seen a Prevost struggling to get up even the steepest hills. That would lead me to believe that they have a lot of throttle left on level ground.

But, let's just say that you are right and it does take 400hp to move a Prevost. That would take around 20 gallons per hour meaning that they only get about 3mpg. I found this statement online: "As a result, the average fleet-wide fuel economy of the trucks in the study was 7.28 mpg in 2017, up from 7.14 in 2016."

That indicates that semis use a lot less power than your Prevost does and I would guess that they are much heavier too. Add in regenerative braking and better streamlining then allow for other drags on the fuel economy of semis like idling and engines not well maintained and I believe that you would see mpg go up quite bit more.

Another factor is that I have not seen a Tesla shown with a bull guard or any trailer other than a streamlined box trailer. Open trailers like car haulers probably do suck up more power than box trailers do.

Maybe you just have a bad engine. I have heard others complain about the Detroit diesel being fuel guzzling weeklings. You would think that a 7 figure motorhome would come with an engine that could both climb hills and pass a few gas stations.

Keep in mind this wasn't a luxury motorhome, it's a line-haul tour coach @ 430 hp. 1999 pre-EGR. At 1500 rpm, it's probably around 350 hp. I'm not WOT of course on flat ground, but I'd say anything above 2% grade I was definitely WOT @ 60+ mph.

On 6% grades, flat out I was 45 - 50 mph, near hp peak. Factor in a 20% loss from the Allison, that's reasonable (340 hp rwhp). Lifetime average mpg was 6.3 US mpg. A tour coach operates at higher speeds than fleet trucks, and we know hp goes up 8x when speed doubles. Cruising on flat was always 75 mph.

My main point: this is the least ideal application of EV. Due to high speeds, you get very little re-generation from braking. To make that worse, going uphill peukert factor is against us. No one knows for sure, but I don't believe 1000 kWh will be enough in real life commercial applications (I know it works hauling batteries for the Gigafactory). Like I said, in real life our loads aren't perfect aero trailers like the Tesla Semi test rigs.

I do believe in 10 years when battery tech progresses another 2 generations, and 2000 kWh packs are cheap, long haul EV Semis could be viable. Remember, many rigs have team drivers, we're talking near 24 hr days in Canada, with maybe 1 - 2 hours total charging time each day. In the meantime, city buses, delivery trucks, etc., makes much more sense.

[Reisender]

fj12ryder wrote:
"The mods can put it where they want. But it is ultimately a towing topic."

No, not really. It could be a towing topic in 10 or so years but right now it should be put in the "EV Speculation" forum. There are no EV tow vehicles that are actually real world useful, and don't appear to be around in the near, 5 years or less, future.

And if Chevy can't produce an EV tow vehicle, and Ford and Ram are still producing diesel/gas RV's, it would seem unlikely that Chevy will just bow out of a lucrative market. Of course it will depend on how lucrative that market is.

Disagree. Around here people tow with EV’s and there are a handful of manufacturers that will be producing 1/2 tons and SUV’s all with towing packages. And regardless, the article references 2035. Nothing wrong with discussing towing issues that will show up in the future.

Again, moderators can put it where they want. It’s still about towing.

[fj12ryder]

"The mods can put it where they want. But it is ultimately a towing topic."

No, not really. It could be a towing topic in 10 or so years but right now it should be put in the "EV Speculation" forum. There are no EV tow vehicles that are actually real world useful, and don't appear to be around in the near, 5 years or less, future.

And if Chevy can't produce an EV tow vehicle, and Ford and Ram are still producing diesel/gas RV's, it would seem unlikely that Chevy will just bow out of a lucrative market. Of course it will depend on how lucrative that market is.

[Reisender]

nickthehunter wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:
I hope that I never get so totally obsessed with one thing that everything that I read or discuss involves that subject. I sure don't want lobbyists forcing their ideas on the general public.

I agree. Never the less, I don't understand why he's posting in the "Tow Vehicle" section; he's certainly not positing about Tow Vehicles. His posts would better belong in the Around the Campfire section; or maybe the can start a "Grocery Getter" section just for him.

Not sure I follow. People right now tow with Chevy gas vehicles. Many people tow with SUV’s or 1/2 tons or Vans etc. At some point in the future if they want to continue doing that with a Chevy they will be towing it with a vehicle without a tail pipe.

The mods can put it where they want. But it is ultimately a towing topic.

[nickthehunter]

Lynnmor wrote:
I hope that I never get so totally obsessed with one thing that everything that I read or discuss involves that subject. I sure don't want lobbyists forcing their ideas on the general public.

I agree. Never the less, I don't understand why he's posting in the "Tow Vehicle" section; he's certainly not positing about Tow Vehicles. His posts would better belong in the Around the Campfire section; or maybe the can start a "Grocery Getter" section just for him.

[Grit_dog]

Reisender wrote:

philh wrote:
raw materials for batteries are currently strip mined in China and Africa, where they don't care about the environment.

Battery mfg can't keep up to current auto demand for batteries.

Then there's the electric grid. Many parts of the country struggle to supply enough electricity in peak demand periods.

Is it just EV batteries you don't like or the ones that are in your cell phone and lap top as well.

Teslas, Gigafactory in Nevada gets its lithium from an operation 300 kilometers away from the factory. Most raw materials can be sourced from within the continent and the US, Canadian and Mexican mining industries are all benefitting as a result of EV's in general.

No, I'm sure it's just the notion that the people who are blinded by the new shiny object don't necessarily consider all the upstream and downstream affects when promoting their personal agenda...

[Groover]

RoyJ wrote:

Reisender wrote:
Plus, downtown deliveries with Electric heavy trucks will have much less impact on down town air quality. As cities outlaw vehicles with tail pipes in downtown cores trucks like these will have an advantage as no depot action is required switching between a diesel tractor and an electric tractor. Win win. Everybody likes good air quality.

No doubt at all about that. All in-town applications, from food delivery to Translink, should be EVs.

I just think high hp long haul applications would be the last frontier for EVs, and it will be conquered, just more in the future.

Here's another way of looking at it: most of our newer city busses are hybrids now, but you'll never see it on tour coaches (Prevost, MCI, etc.) Because there's very little opportunity for energy re-capture at high speeds.

I've driven 50k lbs loaded Prevosts from Calgary and back many times, and used the jakes maybe once the whole trip (8% section on the Coq). All other times it's nearly foot to the floor (430hp Detroit).

I have never seen a Prevost struggling to get up even the steepest hills. That would lead me to believe that they have a lot of throttle left on level ground.

But, let's just say that you are right and it does take 400hp to move a Prevost. That would take around 20 gallons per hour meaning that they only get about 3mpg. I found this statement online: "As a result, the average fleet-wide fuel economy of the trucks in the study was 7.28 mpg in 2017, up from 7.14 in 2016."

That indicates that semis use a lot less power than your Prevost does and I would guess that they are much heavier too. Add in regenerative braking and better streamlining then allow for other drags on the fuel economy of semis like idling and engines not well maintained and I believe that you would see mpg go up quite bit more.

Another factor is that I have not seen a Tesla shown with a bull guard or any trailer other than a streamlined box trailer. Open trailers like car haulers probably do suck up more power than box trailers do.

Maybe you just have a bad engine. I have heard others complain about the Detroit diesel being fuel guzzling weeklings. You would think that a 7 figure motorhome would come with an engine that could both climb hills and pass a few gas stations.

[Shal36]

Reisender wrote:

philh wrote:
raw materials for batteries are currently strip mined in China and Africa, where they don't care about the environment.

Battery mfg can't keep up to current auto demand for batteries.

Then there's the electric grid. Many parts of the country struggle to supply enough electricity in peak demand periods.

Is it just EV batteries you don't like or the ones that are in your cell phone and lap top as well.

Teslas, Gigafactory in Nevada gets its lithium from an operation 300 kilometers away from the factory. Most raw materials can be sourced from within the continent and the US, Canadian and Mexican mining industries are all benefitting as a result of EV's in general.

https://theconversation.com/politically-charged-do-you-know-where-your-batteries-come-from-80886

[time2roll]

philh wrote:
Many parts of the country struggle to supply enough electricity in peak demand periods.

The good part is EVs can be programmed to charge during the low demand period.
This actually helps to even out the load.

[Reisender]

philh wrote:
raw materials for batteries are currently strip mined in China and Africa, where they don't care about the environment.

Battery mfg can't keep up to current auto demand for batteries.

Then there's the electric grid. Many parts of the country struggle to supply enough electricity in peak demand periods.

Is it just EV batteries you don't like or the ones that are in your cell phone and lap top as well.

Teslas, Gigafactory in Nevada gets its lithium from an operation 300 kilometers away from the factory. Most raw materials can be sourced from within the continent and the US, Canadian and Mexican mining industries are all benefitting as a result of EV's in general.

[philh]

raw materials for batteries are currently strip mined in China and Africa, where they don't care about the environment.

Battery mfg can't keep up to current auto demand for batteries.

Then there's the electric grid. Many parts of the country struggle to supply enough electricity in peak demand periods.

[RoyJ]

Reisender wrote:
Plus, downtown deliveries with Electric heavy trucks will have much less impact on down town air quality. As cities outlaw vehicles with tail pipes in downtown cores trucks like these will have an advantage as no depot action is required switching between a diesel tractor and an electric tractor. Win win. Everybody likes good air quality.

No doubt at all about that. All in-town applications, from food delivery to Translink, should be EVs.

I just think high hp long haul applications would be the last frontier for EVs, and it will be conquered, just more in the future.

Here's another way of looking at it: most of our newer city busses are hybrids now, but you'll never see it on tour coaches (Prevost, MCI, etc.) Because there's very little opportunity for energy re-capture at high speeds.

I've driven 50k lbs loaded Prevosts from Calgary and back many times, and used the jakes maybe once the whole trip (8% section on the Coq). All other times it's nearly foot to the floor (430hp Detroit).

[RoyJ]

Groover wrote:

Groover wrote:

RoyJ wrote:

time2roll wrote:

RoyJ wrote:
In 10/20/30 yrs, when they make duallies with 1000 kWh packs and 10 min charging, we go 100% electric. Simple as that!

I understand the 600 mile Semi that runs at 80,000 pounds will not have 1000kWh.

They should have 2000 kWh to do it comfortably.

600 miles is 10 hrs straight at AVERAGE of 60 mph. With 1000 kWh that's 100 kW a average, or 134hp. It takes a LOT more than 134 hp to move 80,000 lbs at an average of 60 mph (including hills).

Even with a 2000 kWh battery that's only 270 hp. Barely enough to maintain 60 mph on perfectly flat ground.

My motorhome with a similar frontal area to a semi gets about 11mpg at 70mph. The best that I can figure that is only about 140hp at 70mph or about 110hp at 60mph. The Tesla semi is probably has better aerodynamics than my motorhome. Barely enough power to maintain speed on level ground is more battery power than is needed. Yes, more power will be used to climb hills or accelerate but that energy will be recovered when going back down the hill or slowing down and I have never seen any vehicle run at max speed for 8 hours. This would indicate that a 1000kwh battery is pretty close to the mark.

The Tesla semi will have far more power available for hill climbing and acceleration than diesel power rigs. Tests show that it can go from 0-60mph in 20 seconds with a full load. I have never seen a diesel rig do it that quickly. That should help traffic flow better and make traveling more pleasant for all of us.

In city use, 1000 kWh might get you 600 miles, as there're a lot less aero loss, and a lot more regenerative braking.

However, the context here is freeway / linehaul, as most of us RV'ers rarely travel hundreds of miles in-town. (my original comment on EV duallies)

Weight does matter in the equation, both for rolling friction, and also because roads are rarely flat. I'm guessing your motorhome weighs a lot less than 80k. I won't assume the Tesla is better aero wise, as in real life commercial application you have a lot more varied trailers. You can't refuse a load on the flatbed just because it's not aerodynamic!

I've never doubted the power of the Tesla semi, just the highway range numbers don't add up unless the pack is huge. Remember, we're talking replacing a diesel tractors with up to 300 gallons on board, that's a lot of chemical energy compared to the typical sedan with 15 gallons of gasoline.