Clarification on tow capacity

[Shorteelaw]

If a vehicle says it's tow capacity is 9,000 lbs what does that 9,000 pounds include? Obviously the TT plus whatever we have in it and the water in it... But what else?

[sandhills]

BurbMan wrote:

NevadaMom wrote:
To piggy back on my towing confusion ...

On their website (rvmaxx) two of the TT models I was interested in are advertised as being 20' and 21' feet, yet when I started digging around and looking at reviews, etc, they appear to be longer. Short of taking a tape measure and traveling to the rv lot, how does one know the exact length of TT's?

And if the length isn't accurately stated, is the weight?

Welcome NevadaMom! Regarding length, the model number used to indicated length, but mfrs have gotten away from that. In my case the 280FQS in our model # once upon a time meant 28', but our's really measures 32'. You have to look at the spec sheet for the trailer (easy to find on the mfrs website) to see the actual length. Also note that some mfrs include the tongue length and some you need to add it in. the tongue is the V-shaped part on the front of the trailer that connects to the tow vehicle.

shorteelaw' wrote:
From what I have gathered the tongue weight is the amount of weight put on the truck from the trailer which reduces the payload which is how much weight the actual truck can carry. Extra passengers and cargo within the truck all take from payload too.

Correct!

Here are some quick bullet points:

1. The weight of the trailer is split between the axle(s) and the tongue. The tongue weight is usually 10-15% of the total weight of the trailer, with 13% being average.

2. The Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is the most the Sequoia can weigh. Find that number on the driver's door jamb sticker or in the owners manual.

3. Subtract the weight of the empty vehicle to determine how much additional weight the vehicle can carry, also referrred to as "payload".

4. The "tow rating" of the vehicle is usually a maximum number and assumes that only the driver is aboard the vehicle, Any passengers or extra weight subtract pound-for-pound from this rating.

5. The average family adds 1000 lbs of stuff to the "dry weight" of a trailer. Trailers are weighed when they leave the factory and that weight will appear on a yellow sticker inside on of the kitchen cabinets, usually above or under the sink. The "dry weight" in manufacturers brochure is the base weight of the trailer without options like awning, spare tires, etc. If you are looking at a trailer with an advertised dry weight of 5000 lbs, figure it will weight 6200 lbs after you pack it for camping with clothes, food, pots/pans, etc. Fresh water is extra at 8 lbs/gal.


First thing is to pack the family in the Sequoia and head to a scale. You can find scales at truck stops, moving companies, scrap years, landfills, etc. Just drive on and they charge $7-$10 to tell you how much you weigh.

So I'll make some numbers here to illustrate:

The Sequoia loaded with the family crosses the scales at 6600 lbs. the GVWR sticker on your door says max weight can be 7200. So 7200-6600=600 lbs is available to carry the tongue weight of the trailer.

If the average tongue weight of a loaded trailer is 13%, the 600/.13=4615 total trailer weight. Subtract the 1000 lbs of stuff you added and that gives you a target dry trailer weight of about 3600 lbs.

What I did here was use the weight of the truck to work backwards to estimate what size trailer you can safely tow. So in other words, in this example, if I buy a trailer that weights 3600 lbs dry weight, add 1000 lbs of stuff to it, and 13% of that weight is on the tongue, my Sequoia will be within its weight limits considering both the weight of the trailer and the passengers.

For light trucks and SUVs, if you are within this weight rating for the vehicle, you are guaranteed to be way under the tow rating.

Let me know if this makes sense.

Burbman,
So tell me if I'm correct or not using your explanation....my GVWR is 7,200 and my loaded truck is 6,300. So I have 900 left to carry tongue weight. The tongue weight of TT im looking at is 485 lbs...so thats about 12%....take the 900/12% and I have 7500...minus around 1,000 lbs of stuff in the TT and I can be looking for a TT in the dry
6,500 range? Is that correct?

[legolas]

rbpru - Dude, you did mean "Angels" didn't you....I am having so much fun reading this thread it should be against the law......pompousity and ego always a hoot

[Shorteelaw]

2112 wrote:
To respond to the OP asking about the F150 Ecoboost:
Look at the payload numbers carefully, even on the Max Tow models. They are not all the same. Options eat into the payload. I know too many people that bought EB's thinking they can tow the world only to realize after the purchase that their payload was 1200 - 1400 lbs, not over 2000 lbs as they wanted.

I found a stippo model on the lot with decent payload and felt real lucky I did.

My suggestion: Find the TV you can live with, but don't buy it yet. Then find your TT that the TV can realistically tow. Once you are happy with the pair, purchase.

Good Luck and see ya at the CG

Great advice and exactly what we are planning to do. Thank you so much! 🙂

[2112]

To respond to the OP asking about the F150 Ecoboost:
Look at the payload numbers carefully, even on the Max Tow models. They are not all the same. Options eat into the payload. I know too many people that bought EB's thinking they can tow the world only to realize after the purchase that their payload was 1200 - 1400 lbs, not over 2000 lbs as they wanted.

I found a stippo model on the lot with decent payload and felt real lucky I did.

My suggestion: Find the TV you can live with, but don't buy it yet. Then find your TT that the TV can realistically tow. Once you are happy with the pair, purchase.

Good Luck and see ya at the CG

[NevadaMom]

Anybody want a couple of teenagers? Haha.

Yes, we all ride in the Sequoia. There is no second vehicle. I guess our towing options are becoming severely limited.

Up until now, we've always towed a cargo trailer to haul all our (tent) camping supplies. Mom was just hoping to upgrade.

Looks like we'll take a family field trip to a scale and go from there.

Thanks for the wonderful education, even if it's not exactly what I wanted to hear.

Sandy.

[BurbMan]

NevadaMom wrote:
To piggy back on my towing confusion ...

On their website (rvmaxx) two of the TT models I was interested in are advertised as being 20' and 21' feet, yet when I started digging around and looking at reviews, etc, they appear to be longer. Short of taking a tape measure and traveling to the rv lot, how does one know the exact length of TT's?

And if the length isn't accurately stated, is the weight?

Welcome NevadaMom! Regarding length, the model number used to indicated length, but mfrs have gotten away from that. In my case the 280FQS in our model # once upon a time meant 28', but our's really measures 32'. You have to look at the spec sheet for the trailer (easy to find on the mfrs website) to see the actual length. Also note that some mfrs include the tongue length and some you need to add it in. the tongue is the V-shaped part on the front of the trailer that connects to the tow vehicle.

shorteelaw' wrote:
From what I have gathered the tongue weight is the amount of weight put on the truck from the trailer which reduces the payload which is how much weight the actual truck can carry. Extra passengers and cargo within the truck all take from payload too.

Correct!

Here are some quick bullet points:

1. The weight of the trailer is split between the axle(s) and the tongue. The tongue weight is usually 10-15% of the total weight of the trailer, with 13% being average.

2. The Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is the most the Sequoia can weigh. Find that number on the driver's door jamb sticker or in the owners manual.

3. Subtract the weight of the empty vehicle to determine how much additional weight the vehicle can carry, also referrred to as "payload".

4. The "tow rating" of the vehicle is usually a maximum number and assumes that only the driver is aboard the vehicle, Any passengers or extra weight subtract pound-for-pound from this rating.

5. The average family adds 1000 lbs of stuff to the "dry weight" of a trailer. Trailers are weighed when they leave the factory and that weight will appear on a yellow sticker inside on of the kitchen cabinets, usually above or under the sink. The "dry weight" in manufacturers brochure is the base weight of the trailer without options like awning, spare tires, etc. If you are looking at a trailer with an advertised dry weight of 5000 lbs, figure it will weight 6200 lbs after you pack it for camping with clothes, food, pots/pans, etc. Fresh water is extra at 8 lbs/gal.


First thing is to pack the family in the Sequoia and head to a scale. You can find scales at truck stops, moving companies, scrap years, landfills, etc. Just drive on and they charge $7-$10 to tell you how much you weigh.

So I'll make some numbers here to illustrate:

The Sequoia loaded with the family crosses the scales at 6600 lbs. the GVWR sticker on your door says max weight can be 7200. So 7200-6600=600 lbs is available to carry the tongue weight of the trailer.

If the average tongue weight of a loaded trailer is 13%, the 600/.13=4615 total trailer weight. Subtract the 1000 lbs of stuff you added and that gives you a target dry trailer weight of about 3600 lbs.

What I did here was use the weight of the truck to work backwards to estimate what size trailer you can safely tow. So in other words, in this example, if I buy a trailer that weights 3600 lbs dry weight, add 1000 lbs of stuff to it, and 13% of that weight is on the tongue, my Sequoia will be within its weight limits considering both the weight of the trailer and the passengers.

For light trucks and SUVs, if you are within this weight rating for the vehicle, you are guaranteed to be way under the tow rating.

Let me know if this makes sense.

[brulaz]

NevadaMom wrote:

...
I have a 2012 Toyota Sequoia 4.7L with a GVWR of 7300 lbs. I have six teenage boys (plus one little boy), which I know will obviously impact the overall weight.
...

Do all of you travel in that Toyota? If so, I suspect that with Six teenagers, One Mom and One child, that Toyota is already filled to its capacity. And adding a trailer's tongue weight will cause it to exceed its GVWR of 7300.

But that depends upon how heavy everybody is. Add up all your weights and compare that to the Toyota's payload on the doorjamb yellow sticker.

Or take two cars.

And trailer lengths are variable. Some just report the length of the box and, as mentioned, you have to add the length of the A-Frame. Others report the actual length from hitch to bumper. It depends.

[Goldstalker]

NevadaMom wrote:
To piggy back on my towing confusion ...

On their website (rvmaxx) two of the TT models I was interested in are advertised as being 20' and 21' feet, yet when I started digging around and looking at reviews, etc, they appear to be longer. Short of taking a tape measure and traveling to the rv lot, how does one know the exact length of TT's?

And if the length isn't accurately stated, is the weight?

You have to add about 3ft for the tongue. Also the dry weight stated will be approx 200lbs less than the actually unloaded weight after dealer options are installed.

[NevadaMom]

To piggy back on my towing confusion ...

On their website (rvmaxx) two of the TT models I was interested in are advertised as being 20' and 21' feet, yet when I started digging around and looking at reviews, etc, they appear to be longer. Short of taking a tape measure and traveling to the rv lot, how does one know the exact length of TT's?

And if the length isn't accurately stated, is the weight?

[Shorteelaw]

From what I have gathered the tongue weight is the amount of weight put on the truck from the trailer which reduces the payload which is how much weight the actual truck can carry. Extra passengers and cargo within the truck all take from payload too.

[NevadaMom]

I have read through this entire thread and thought I finally understood how to calculate the towing capacity, but then there were things thrown in like "tongue weight" and "payload" and now I'm confused again.

I have a 2012 Toyota Sequoia 4.7L with a GVWR of 7300 lbs. I have six teenage boys (plus one little boy), which I know will obviously impact the overall weight.

I'm looking at used travel trailers in the 20 to 22 ft range. (The older boys still prefer tents, but mama would like some creature comforts.) I've looked at a 21' Dutchmen Aerolite and a 20' Keystone Passport (both with rear slide-out beds).

Any suggestions or advice for me? I'd love to soak up some of your experience and knowledge.

Thanks,
Sandy.

[bigben33]

I have 2014 Titan Pro-4x and it hauls my 26ft TT just fine. TT is 6500 lbs, I usually have 600 lbs or better in the cab and about 500-1000 lbs in the TT.

[jaycocreek]

I have done it and don't disagree, have a semi scale 100 yards from the house. The manufacturers have made this towing,complicated to the new tower. Some like Ford have done this with addons for more money with minor changes with the same frame.

I won't bore anyone with the difference in tow and max tow, all on the same frame. Nobody can change the "official" GVWR. Of any truck but most of us know what it consist of, again on the same frame. Speaking Ford f-150 here, nothing else.

In the old days before these tow packages,RVers new what was needed to pull that trailer, large or small and added those features. Now they call it the tow package and the max tow package, in fords case....... As far as the GVWR goes, again in fords case, small but expensive in some cases changes make a couple hundred pound differences to a new axle for 1,000 lbs or more in payload.

You can do some or all of these changes for your personal needs but it does not change the official/stamped GVWR of that truck even though it is exactly the same in componants as higher officially rated GVWR.

In my case only, you can't teach an old dog new tricks.I modify for my needs as I always have before max tow and max payload were ever introduced.

Am I saying you can go over the rated anything.. NO...I am saying each one of us has the choice to stick by the official book or make our own changes to there specs even if there unofficial, most being minor changes or we can just buy a 1 ton to haul a 8,000 lb trailer, properly equipped of course.:B

[BurbMan]

jaycocreek wrote:
Let's give these new guys asking questions a break and quit just saying NO to 1/2 tons. A 3/4 ton is just not the answer to a lot of new to the RV world,just like solar/6 volt doesn't suit everyone.....

Agreed. As was stated, the issue with ALL vehicles towing RVs is NOT engine power, it's load capacity. Sorry to say that your 5.4L in a 150 beating a 6.0L in a 2500 to the top of the Whitebird Hill is not what this is about.

When you get up into the heavier trailers at 6000+ empty you are looking at 7000+ loaded or more, with tongue weights close to 1000 lbs. It's not a matter of whether a "half ton" can or cannot pull the trailer, you need to look at specific vehicle specs and also consider what else you plan on loading in the truck to be sure there's enough capacity to handle the tongue weight. Many/most 1500 series trucks come with P-rated tires, light duty semi-floating rear axles, etc., and if you want the truck to last you need to pay attention to the weight ratings assigned by the mfr.

Nobody is telling the OP that he can't tow anything with a Titan (or whatever he chooses), only to choose the TT wisely so as not to overload the truck.

I would suggest that everybody, not just you jaycocreek, make a trip to the scales with their rig before posting on here about how much a truck can tow. In my 12+ years on this forum, I have found that *most* everybody that says a given rig "tows just fine" is overloaded and doesn't know it.

I am re-arranging the storage in my TT and plan to make a stop at the scales one of the first trips out to see where I stand and be sure I am still OK on all ratings.