Diesel Brothers

[Charlie_D_]

https://www.duramaxforum.com/threads/‘diesel-brothers’-shop-to-pay-850k-for-violating-clean-air-stan...

[SidecarFlip]

Whatever, I bet you blatantly ignore the advice of medical professionals concerning the Wuhan Flu too. I don't reside in a glass house but obviously, yo do.

[ShinerBock]

SidecarFlip wrote:
11 pages of postulation. Bottom line is, they broke Federal Law, and got dinged. Laws are written and enforced to 'protect the innocent' They ain't. Oh well.

Probably not the first and won't be the last either.

Didn't you say you were out of here like 10 times already?

Not all laws are written to protect the innocent. Just ask any American of African descent that was alive during the 1960's.

Also, these aren't laws written by congress or the people. Long ago, congress gave the right to make emissions regulation and limits to one entity, the EPA. And just as the FBI abused it power for its own gain under J Edgar Hoover, so has the EPA. Like the sue and settle tactic used by the EPA to make regulations that would not have passed otherwise.

EPA's Secret And Costly 'Sue And Settle' Collusion With Environmental Organizations

Sue and Settle: Regulating Behind Closed Doors

Essentially they collude with special interest environmental groups so that they can fast track regulations or make regulations that would not have otherwise passed all while giving money to the special interest groups who in turn use that money to get people they want elected to make more regulations they want. The harsher they make the regulations, the more people they can sue and the more money they are able to get for these special interest groups. All while bypassing the legislative process taking away the people's right to make their own laws.

So you see, these regulations are not to protect the innocent. If they were, then they would likely mirror the EU's emissions standards with much lower greenhouse gas emissions emitted by gas vehicles. However, they cannot do this because many voters will not like it so they go after diesels since there are less voters in the market and most are commercial so it is easier to enforce and get money out of it. This, in my opinion, is why diesel regulations are much harsher here than the EU, and why direct injected gasoline engine are permitted to emit even more PM than diesels.

[SidecarFlip]

11 pages of postulation. Bottom line is, they broke Federal Law, and got dinged. Laws are written and enforced to 'protect the innocent' They ain't. Oh well.

Probably not the first and won't be the last either.

[ShinerBock]

time2roll wrote:
I am far more concerned about Kim Jong Un rockets than Elon's.

Me too, just like I am far more concerned with the millions of tons of emissions Elons rockets and private jets than the grams of emissions diesel brother's trucks.

[ShinerBock]

Lantley wrote:

Most people don't know anything about rocket technology or rocket emissions. Particularly when the transgression occurs in the upper atmosphere out of site.
However people due care when some pick up truck blows a cloud of black smoke in their face. They don't really care that the emissions are deleted.
The public just doesn't want black smoke blown in their face. It's not that complicated.
Those that like to roll coal eventually get the attention of the regulators who ultimately trace the issue back to Diesel Bros.
Diesel Bros. are held accountable. Elon Musk and rockets never come into the picture because the general public has no idea what Elon is doing with is rockets. They care even less about the emissions of his rockets.
The public just does not want black smoke blown in their face.
The public has no problem prosecuting those that assist others who blow smoke in their face.
Elon gets away with blowing smoke because no one understands or realizes whats going on with his rockets. However if Elon's Tesla's were rolling coal he'd feel the backlash just like diesel Bros.

Again, I never said any of this makes it legal so I am not sure why you keep saying that. I am saying that something that is legal (because someone paid money for it to be) emits millions of tons of emissions yet do not care. However, they do care about the person emitting grams.

The only reason why people care is because they can see it which brings up the other irony that direct injected gasoline engines emit more PM than a diesel. Up to ten times more. But since the particles are so fine(which makes it worse because that means it can go deeper into your lungs) people cannot see these particles like the larger black smoke particles of a diesel. Don't believe me, go look at the tail pipe of a direct injected engines and notice how much PM has collected on it and how similar it is to an old diesel's tailpipe.

And no, these rockets do not just emit in the upper atmosphere. It tales a lot of energy to get these rockets off the ground. It takes these rockets up to 12 miles to get out of the troposphere where stagnated NOx in high concentrations are bad.

It is also ironic how people think it is fine one day, and not fine the next all because an entity that has known to overstep their bounds in there decisions making them based on politics instead of science said so. What if a government organisation said no more guns, would that instantly make it okay for them to take them and anyone who has one a bad person?

[Grit_dog]

Shiner, have to realize the crowd your preaching to here.
We have folks on this forum that are so risk averse to rule breaking that they actually believe that its illegal to exceed the their vehicle's mfg rated cargo capacity!
In their mind, jaywalking should be a felony!

[time2roll]

I am far more concerned about Kim Jong Un rockets than Elon's.

[Lantley]

ShinerBock wrote:

Lantley wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Lantley wrote:

If you choose not to follow the rules you will suffer the penalty.
As "Barreta" eloquently said. "Don't due the crime if you can't do the time!" Unless of course you can afford a high powered/priced lawyer.

Or unless you pay to have the rules changed so you are not commuting a crime even though you are spewing more pollution in the air than ten thousand diesel bothers while all the tree huggers worship you. You don't have to follow rules that you pay not to exist.

I agree you can pay to have laws enacted or eliminated. Goes on every day in legislatures all across the country. There are these guys called Lobbyist, they get paid lots of money by rich guys like Musk.Lobbyist also get big bucks from corporate America.
K street in Washington D.C. is about 50 miles from me. Lobbyist have set up shop there an attempt to manipulate Congress on behalf of some cause everyday!For better or worst that's how the game is played.
Elon is just using his deep pockets to accomplish his goals.
Anyone with deep enough pockets can hire a lobbyist or two to influence the law.
None of this makes it legal to delete emissions on diesel pick ups.

Never said it makes it legal. I am just commenting on how people frown upon this yet not upon the rolling coal Elon does all because he had enough money to keep it from being illegal. It is a bit of an oxymoron. A coal rolling rocket that spews millions of tons of diesel emissions is legal and people accept it, but a truck that spews grams(yes grams) is not and people hate them more than the guy who spews millions of tons all because he had enough money to keep his legal.

Most people don't know anything about rocket technology or rocket emissions. Particularly when the transgression occurs in the upper atmosphere out of site.
However people due care when some pick up truck blows a cloud of black smoke in their face. They don't really care that the emissions are deleted.
The public just doesn't want black smoke blown in their face. It's not that complicated.
Those that like to roll coal eventually get the attention of the regulators who ultimately trace the issue back to Diesel Bros.
Diesel Bros. are held accountable. Elon Musk and rockets never come into the picture because the general public has no idea what Elon is doing with is rockets. They care even less about the emissions of his rockets.
The public just does not want black smoke blown in their face.
The public has no problem prosecuting those that assist others who blow smoke in their face.
Elon gets away with blowing smoke because no one understands or realizes whats going on with his rockets. However if Elon's Tesla's were rolling coal he'd feel the backlash just like diesel Bros.

[free_radical]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I have preached "FAIR TRADE" for many years, NOT Free Trade!

You want to sell your stuff here fine but it needs to be made with same Labor and Environmental regulations we impose on our Businesses.

Good idea,wanna tell that to Apple company!?

[free_radical]

ShinerBock wrote:
I also think it is a bit ironic that the government is cracking down on diesel brothers yet Elon Musk can blast all those Kerosene(#1 diesel fuel) rockets in the air each one worth the emissions of hundreds of thousands of these trucks. I guess if you have enough money and lobby the right people, then you have free reign to make your own rules and do as you please.

Then you have Elon and all the rest of those movie stars/entertainers/sports players fly around in their private jets, helicopters; have exotic cars and yachts living in multiple houses telling use that we should not pollute the air they breathe. That we have to pay extra for these emissions equipment for their clean air. Each one of them probably put more carbon and NOx in the air then hundreds of the diesel brothers yet the diesel brothers are the bad guys here. Go figure.... :h

Theres a big difference between blowing dirty smoke on purpose on the street makin people sick,
And business people using jets to get to get business done on time,
all the polution stays up there and doesnt bother anyone,
exept birds maybe

https://youtu.be/Q6tNAEh8YW4

[ShinerBock]

Lantley wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Lantley wrote:

If you choose not to follow the rules you will suffer the penalty.
As "Barreta" eloquently said. "Don't due the crime if you can't do the time!" Unless of course you can afford a high powered/priced lawyer.

Or unless you pay to have the rules changed so you are not commuting a crime even though you are spewing more pollution in the air than ten thousand diesel bothers while all the tree huggers worship you. You don't have to follow rules that you pay not to exist.

I agree you can pay to have laws enacted or eliminated. Goes on every day in legislatures all across the country. There are these guys called Lobbyist, they get paid lots of money by rich guys like Musk.Lobbyist also get big bucks from corporate America.
K street in Washington D.C. is about 50 miles from me. Lobbyist have set up shop there an attempt to manipulate Congress on behalf of some cause everyday!For better or worst that's how the game is played.
Elon is just using his deep pockets to accomplish his goals.
Anyone with deep enough pockets can hire a lobbyist or two to influence the law.
None of this makes it legal to delete emissions on diesel pick ups.

Never said it makes it legal. I am just commenting on how people frown upon this yet not upon the rolling coal Elon does all because he had enough money to keep it from being illegal. It is a bit of an oxymoron. A coal rolling rocket that spews millions of tons of diesel emissions is legal and people accept it, but a truck that spews grams(yes grams) is not and people hate them more than the guy who spews millions of tons all because he had enough money to keep his legal.

[Lantley]

ShinerBock wrote:

Lantley wrote:

If you choose not to follow the rules you will suffer the penalty.
As "Barreta" eloquently said. "Don't due the crime if you can't do the time!" Unless of course you can afford a high powered/priced lawyer.

Or unless you pay to have the rules changed so you are not commuting a crime even though you are spewing more pollution in the air than ten thousand diesel bothers while all the tree huggers worship you. You don't have to follow rules that you pay not to exist.

I agree you can pay to have laws enacted or eliminated. Goes on every day in legislatures all across the country. There are these guys called Lobbyist, they get paid lots of money by rich guys like Musk.Lobbyist also get big bucks from corporate America.
K street in Washington D.C. is about 50 miles from me. Lobbyist have set up shop there an attempt to manipulate Congress on behalf of some cause everyday!For better or worst that's how the game is played.
Elon is just using his deep pockets to accomplish his goals.
Anyone with deep enough pockets can hire a lobbyist or two to influence the law.
None of this makes it legal to delete emissions on diesel pick ups.

[ShinerBock]

Lantley wrote:

If you choose not to follow the rules you will suffer the penalty.
As "Barreta" eloquently said. "Don't due the crime if you can't do the time!" Unless of course you can afford a high powered/priced lawyer.

Or unless you pay to have the rules changed so you are not commuting a crime even though you are spewing more pollution in the air than ten thousand diesel bothers while all the tree huggers worship you. You don't have to follow rules that you pay not to exist.

[ShinerBock]

time2roll wrote:
I am not familiar that Elon had any laws changed for the Gulfstream or the rockets.
Any link to this?
Maybe the diesel boys should get into rocketry.

Only law I know of Elon is trying to change are the state laws that prohibit selling Tesla vehicles direct to consumers in about half the states.

There are no links because SpaceX and other such companies were able to keep emissions regulations out of the Commercial Space Launch Act other legislation. The only way that I know that SpaceX lobbied against emissions regulations in this and other bills is because I receive email newsletters from my Senator, Ted Cruz, who is the chairman of the senate Space subcommittee. It would end up costing them lots of money because the fuel that NASA uses and has hardly any emissions cost a lot of money.

[stsmark]

I wonder if Elon has solar on his houses.
Turtle, I had a 40 year career in Business Aviation and your fuel burn numbers are correct. There actually has been huge amounts of work on low smoke/ low nox combustors for years. Lots of work on the fuel nozzle side as well. There actually are mandated targets for emissions just like noise.
I will say having been around many owners that the jets become a car, just hop in and let’s go.
One of favorites, we flew the owners from the Bay Area to Tahoe for the weekend, brought the plane home and just closing the hangar when I get a call that housekeeper is bringing the wife’s favorite pair of jeans out to the airport and we need to fly them up. Off we went.