Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[BertP]

Why do you say that, Ralf? What do you see as the difference between a gasser and a diesel that would acount for hte melt down of the gasser?

Bert

[hone_eagle]

Would you on your daily commute blow the doors off a corvette,sure.a few secounds at WOT is not 30 or more minutes at full load pulling a montain pass,no gas engine could get rid of the heat fast enough,it would be slag in half the time.The diesel would do it all day and for years after.

[Wintercamper]

"Besides if you had a 400 hp gas engine you could also get a 400 hp diesel in the same truck that would still out pull the gas engine. "

That is not a valid comparison.
Instead one should compare what most people, especially the Diesel crowd,
say is the most important, Tq.

A gas engine with a turbo give you more Tq and Hp per liter displacement and also per Kg engine weight.

Let´s say you get a turbocharged 5.3 gasser, it would deliver the following numbers if built to the state of the art
(same specific output as a Saab 2.3 engine):
Tq 850 Nm 1500 rpm to 5000 rpm
Hp 600 Hp @ 5000.

At the same time it would weigh several 100 pounds less than a diesel delivering 850 Nm.
The Hp difference does not need any comment.............

Will it deliver worse mileage than the diesel, o yes, will it be cheaper to produce than the Diesel, o yes on that one to!
Would you on your daily commute at the lights, be able to blow the doors of a new Corvette, YES!!

A truck like this will never be produced as long as people keep paying those hefty premiums for the Diesels. Sad but true.

Since this turbo gas truck only exists in "it could be done with existing technology" dream scenario, I do agree that of the trucks that can actually be bought, the Diesel is the better heavy tow truck.

Br//

[DavidPhillips]

People like buying lower priced fuel and if you turbocharge your gas engine you will not be able to use low octane fuel.

Besides if you had a 400 hp gas engine you could also get a 400 hp diesel in the same truck that would still out pull the gas engine.

[hone_eagle]

Wintercamper wrote:
If both gas and diesels were turbo charged, there would not be any difference in the tow experience, at least not to the advantage of the diesel.

Since all modern diesels are turbocharged, and there are no turbocharged gas trucks,the diesel delivers a superior tow experience.

Simple as that.

BR//

Right ,but it begs the question- why arn't there any turboed gas trucks for towing.....hummmm?

[Wintercamper]

If both gas and diesels were turbo charged, there would not be any difference in the tow experience, at least not to the advantage of the diesel.

Since all modern diesels are turbocharged, and there are no turbocharged gas trucks,the diesel delivers a superior tow experience.

Simple as that.

BR//

[canigetoutnow]

numbers only mean so much. I think it's all a matter of feel. This discussion is fun but I must give props to bert, I like your dedication to your side 🙂

as hopeless as it may be! j/k 😉

also, thanks for the new quote, i love it.

[BertP]

Not necessisarily. There are many types of dynos that measure HP and calculate torque. The most common measure torque and calculate HP, but they aren't the only types of dynos.

Bert

[Rvndave]

BertP wrote:
Both HP and torque can be measured. Which one is measured is entirely dependent upon the type of dyno used. However, as has been stated many times in this and many other threads, the torque that gets you up the hill is the torque present on your drive axle which tells you absolutely nothing about the amount of torque generated by the engine. The lower the torque output of the engine, the taller the gears necessary between the engine and axle to get the required torque on the axle. But, I can get exactly the same amount of torque on the axle with an engine that produces 100 lb-ft of torque as I can with an engine that produces 1000 lb-ft of torque. The question is at what axle rpm will that occur. If you have the HP, it can occur at a high axle rpm (vehicle speed). If you don't have the HP, it will occur at a low axle rpm.

Bert

If the dyno shows horsepower is is measuring torque and calculating horsepower!!!!!!!!!

[BertP]

And that will net you max acceleration for that vehicle - exactly how the 1/4 mile folks drive thier vehicles. But, unless it puts over 300 HP to the ground, it will not "blow the doors off" the DMax.

Bert

[DavidPhillips]

Good explaination RvnDave.




Bert, in the case of my 4 cyl I plan on staying at max rpm when I shift to second. The front tires will be spinning when I shift and will catch as traction takes hold. This way I am at max hp all of the time.

Plus I can save all of those other gears from wearing out.

[BertP]

Both HP and torque can be measured. Which one is measured is entirely dependent upon the type of dyno used. However, as has been stated many times in this and many other threads, the torque that gets you up the hill is the torque present on your drive axle which tells you absolutely nothing about the amount of torque generated by the engine. The lower the torque output of the engine, the taller the gears necessary between the engine and axle to get the required torque on the axle. But, I can get exactly the same amount of torque on the axle with an engine that produces 100 lb-ft of torque as I can with an engine that produces 1000 lb-ft of torque. The question is at what axle rpm will that occur. If you have the HP, it can occur at a high axle rpm (vehicle speed). If you don't have the HP, it will occur at a low axle rpm.

Bert

[Rvndave]

My opinion is, torque is a twisting force that can be measured. Maximum torque will usually be found at an engines lower rpm range. Horsepower uses the torque reading and rpm to calculate power. Maximum horsepower is usually found at an engines higher rpm range. It is torque, a twisting force that turns my wheels up a grade, not someones idea of how to calculate what a horse might pull. I believe the horsepower and torque readings are useful for us to determine just where our engines power band is. Since only torque can be measured, and it is torque that turns my drive wheels, I will use a torque reading as I select an engine for heavy towing. Calculating torque to determine horsepower and claiming this is a most powerful engine is horsesh^%. I have traveled with a gasser pulling a nearly identical load, they were right with us until a 6% grade, plus he had the joy of buying 1/3 more fuel each time we fueled.

[BertP]

Not if it isn't developing any power, you can't.

Bert

[DavidPhillips]

My 4 cylinder's not 300 hp, but with a standard shift I don't need to worry.

I can tow my 5er in first and second at 8000 rpm.


rpm is KING!