Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[miner1]

If you are looking for cost savings in ANY hobby, you should not be doing that particular hobby. I've owned snowmobiles, shoot trap, RV, etc...I wish they all cost less to do, but if you start pinching pennies and try to figure out how long the pay back of a diesel is etc.. it will be more difficult to enjoy what your are doing. Getting back to the topic, if I had to go back to towing w/ a gas engine I would sell the trailer.

[bigDaddy]

I was using a 5.3 gas to tow my fifth wheel and was averaging 9 miles to the gallon and the engine was working hard.

I finally upgraded to a 2006 Duramax last June. It made towing from a chore into somewhat enjoyable. No more losing speed on hills, better transmission braking, better control, and less stress from the wife. I live in Calgary and tow west into the rockies every weekend so I needed some extra power.

I was hesitant at first to pay the extra $$$ for a diesel, but after the purchase I will never go back to gas. The first trip out I achieved an extra 40 miles or more per tank using the diesel over my gas. The tanks are the same size.

Currently I am getting around 13 MPG towing into the mountains. Compared to my gas the duramax pulls like a train.

The only bad thing about the diesel is I have upgraded from a 4000 pound 24 foot fifth wheel to a 8200 pound 33 footer. Once you have a Diesel the wife starts looking at bigger units so be prepared.

[JIMNLIN]

BigCheeze wrote:
Also, my average non-towing MPG was 12, and was 7-8 when towing. If I pull up into the 12-14 when towing, I think I win. Also going from the Extra cab to a crew cab is a GREAT deal for the family.

So with the about .50 cent difference in Gas -vs- Diesel it's a long way to even, but I think the over all experience and the fact I should be able to easily get 10+ yrs out of this truck makes it worth while for me. Plus... she is beautiful 😄

the diesel will take several thousand [10-20k] of hard working miles to get broke in for best mpgs. You have your real numbers and can do the math for your actuall fuel consumption. Your gonna' be surprised how much the diesel will save you in 25k-50k. I get amused at some folks with gassers when they claim any diesel will give only 2-3 better mpgs than a gasser. Your gonna' find what all serious commercial haulers have always known about gas vs diesel. Congratulation
JIM

[BigCheeze]

Well, as several have said I believe it depends on the situation. I am hoping I just made the right decision, as last weekend I just purchased a GMC 2500HD with the Durmax 6.6l turbo Diesel.

For me I belive it makes complete sense (of course we'll see). I was towing a Jayflight 29BHS with a GMC 1500 with the 5.3L. It towed it just fine, however it was obvious it was work'n that truck. Coming up on 100K miles I figured it was going to require some real TLC to keep this TV going, specially with some of the major hills I need to climb to get out of Colorado.

Also, my average non-towing MPG was 12, and was 7-8 when towing. If I pull up into the 12-14 when towing, I think I win. Also going from the Extra cab to a crew cab is a GREAT deal for the family.

So with the about .50 cent difference in Gas -vs- Diesel it's a long way to even, but I think the over all experience and the fact I should be able to easily get 10+ yrs out of this truck makes it worth while for me. Plus... she is beautiful 😄

[Rvndave]

I just finished a little research on my diesel 03 Cummins pickup. Nada adds $3,975 average trade in value, $4,425 average retail, for the diesel option. This is most of what I paid for the diesel option. Filled my fuel tank last night and compared my MPG to the readout display. I traveled solo 421 miles using 19.99 gals of fuel. Trip computer in truck showed 23.2 MPG actual MPG using a calculator comes to 21.06 MPG. I doubt a big block gas engine is going to come near this fuel economy. Even with my fuel cost running 20-30 cents a gal more I have to feel I am money ahead getting this high MPG. As an added bonus I get the most powerful stock engine available.

[Full_Pull]

05 CUMMINS Turbo Diesel .

[Hoss427]

ONE more thing as to life of engines...99% of Diesel OR gas owners never wear their engine out. They trade em off before that happens. Its a mute point for most. Like I said...I am a fleet manager...I have numbers to back what I said. I will clarify it more.....the more miles you drive the more a diesel makes sence. If you drive 15 or even 20 thousand miles a year a diesel will likely NEVER pay for itself. As for resale diesels sell better than gas of course. In my part of the country they both have good resale but diesels sell faster.

[Hoss427]

JIMNLIN wrote:
your brand diesel truck may cost more to operate than a comparable gasser but that doesn't mean other brands of diesels trucks are the same. My diesel is cheaper to operate than any of the big block gassers over the long haul. Diesel fuel is only eighteen cents above gas around here. Refueling at the local truck stops still shows serious folks that make their living on the road still use a diesel as cheaper fuel cost and less maintenence is still the big plus for the diesel. My neighbor is a long hauler and has around fifty percent saving in fuel costs with her Cummins over a BB gasser. That is something she takes to the bank. I have already reclaimed the 3450 dollar Cummins option in fuel cost savings in the first 46000 miles. Plus the higher resale diesel truck value over comparabile gasser. More money takin' to the bank. My situation worked for me. Your situation may work for you but don't fool yourself by claiming it covers everyone else. Everyone has their own story.
The life expectancy of a 8.1 according to GM is 200k. The life expectancy of the Cummins is 350k fleet average before first overhaul according to Cummins. Your reasons for not owning a diesel works for you. Thats great as its your decision , but don't think your situation covers everybody else.
JIM

YOU are absoluely correct. Every situation is different. Long haul truckers drive 100,000 miles plus a year. Diesel is thier only option and is cost effective. If I was going to drive 40 or 50 thousand miles a year with my pickup I would have a diesel. YOUR state has some of the cheapest fuel in the nation. Another reason your diesel is working for you. I Love diesels....don't get me wrong. My next truck is going to be an f-450 pickup because I need to haul an 5,000 lb camper. By the way....the diesel options on the new ones run 6700+ for the 08,s....check it out. It on the manufacturers web sites.

[JIMNLIN]

your brand diesel truck may cost more to operate than a comparable gasser but that doesn't mean other brands of diesels trucks are the same. My diesel is cheaper to operate than any of the big block gassers over the long haul. Diesel fuel is only eighteen cents above gas around here. Refueling at the local truck stops still shows serious folks that make their living on the road still use a diesel as cheaper fuel cost and less maintenence is still the big plus for the diesel. My neighbor is a long hauler and has around fifty percent saving in fuel costs with her Cummins over a BB gasser. That is something she takes to the bank. I have already reclaimed the 3450 dollar Cummins option in fuel cost savings in the first 46000 miles. Plus the higher resale diesel truck value over comparabile gasser. More money takin' to the bank. My situation worked for me. Your situation may work for you but don't fool yourself by claiming it covers everyone else. Everyone has their own story.
The life expectancy of a 8.1 according to GM is 200k. The life expectancy of the Cummins is 350k fleet average before first overhaul according to Cummins. Your reasons for not owning a diesel works for you. Thats great as its your decision , but don't think your situation covers everybody else.
JIM

[Hoss427]

Diesel prices today...2.85 is the cheaspest cut rate ARCO in town. 2.99 for chevron diesel. Gas...cheapest today is 2.48 at Costco...chevron 2.55. Diesel runs between 40 and 60 cents a gallong more in this state than gas does. I put a pencel to it....and figuring the price of the 08 diesels from all manufactures is about a 6750 option. It will take me about 125,000 miles to break even with the cost difference between gas and diesel. Thats if I had NO repairs issure with either. But being a fleet manager for 30 tells me diesels cost almost twice as much in maintenance over the life of the engine. Life of the engines in NOT a great difference. Gas engines in our fleets last 250,000 miles at least...diesels ...I don't know how long..we never wore any out???? We have one 7.3 Ford with 475,000 on the original engine. It was a non-turbo pre power stroker. Only thing we did with it in 475,000 was fuel pumps and injectors. I love Diesels for the way they pull and drive. I love then trouble free (comparitively) gas engines. Final apprasal (mine). Diesels cost more to own an operate...but are better for towing. Gas will do any job you ask it too. The new gas engines have plenty of power. ITS UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL....DIESELS COST MORE....gas is less trouble. Diesel is more fun to drive....but don't expect to pay less for diesels over the long haul...it will not happen..take it to the bank. Just about time the diesel starts to pay for itself.....wham....???

[sutak]

I guess the selection of the gasser or diesel depends on many things:
1. Wants and Needs
2. How long you're gonna keep it.
3. Is it for heavy work only.
4. Access to cheap fuel...
5. Risk of getting caught burning colored diesel..
6. Maintenance costs
7. Cost of the diesel option
8. Cost of big block option
9. Cost of repair after warranty

I had my share of diesels and enjoyed having them..., well with the exception of the GM 350 conversion diesel. Had 3 6.2 L diesels, then a 99 6.5 TD, finally the 8.1L with the Allison tranny.
I've had the truck for 5 years now, only use it for RV-ing, have only 51000 miles on it. With the GCVW of 17000 lbs I average 9.5 mpimpg, and 8.5 mpusg. Sometimes it's better than this, with a headwind worse. Empty it's not much better 10-12 mpImpg.
It is very easy to rationalize the gasser or the diesel. After so many diesels it was truly refreshing to have truck that I just fill it with gas and change the oil for 30 bucks twice a year. Don't have to worry about winter or summer fuels, additives, fuel filters. It is quieter, cleaner, and the Allison is well matched with the 8.1.
By the way the cost of the diesel option paid for the difference in the fuel just now. I plan to keep the truck and see what the future will bring. After 5 years, on the diesels, I did however have the injector pump rebuilt as well as the injectors on all the diesels with the exception of the 99 that I only kept for two years. No doubt the tolerances are much more critical on diesels. Since the fuel ignition depends on the heat of the compressed air, the compression must be good all the time. On the gassers the compression is not that critical, because of the spark ignition. I'm sure I could make a case for the diesel as well. I'll do that if I buy one again.
Larry.

[sutak]

I guess the selection of the gasser or diesel depends on many things:
1. Wants and Needs
2. How long you're gonna keep it.
3. Is it for heavy work only.
4. Access to cheap fuel...
5. Risk of getting caught burning colored diesel..
6. Maintenance costs
7. Cost of the diesel option
8. Cost of big block option
9. Cost of repair after warranty

I had my share of diesels and enjoyed having them..., well with the exception of the GM 350 conversion diesel. Had 3 6.2 L diesels, then a 99 6.5 TD, finally the 8.1L with the Allison tranny.
I've had the truck for 5 years now, only use it for RV-ing, have only 51000 miles on it. With the GCVW of 17000 lbs I average 9.5 mpimpg, and 8.5 mpusg. Sometimes it's better than this, with a headwind worse. Empty it's not much better 10-12 mpImpg.
It is very easy to rationalize the gasser or the diesel. After so many diesels it was truly refreshing to have truck that I just fill it with gas and change the oil for 30 bucks twice a year. Don't have to worry about winter or summer fuels, additives, fuel filters. It is quieter, cleaner, and the Allison is well matched with the 8.1.
By the way the cost of the diesel option paid for the difference in the fuel just now. I plan to keep the truck and see what the future will bring. After 5 years, on the diesels, I did however have the injector pump rebuilt as well as the injectors on all the diesels with the exception of the 99 that I only kept for two years. No doubt the tolerances are much more critical on diesels. Since the fuel ignition depends on the heat of the compressed air, the compression must be good all the time. On the gassers the compression is not that critical, because of the spark ignition. I'm sure I could make a case for the diesel as well. I'll do that if I buy one again.
Larry.

[eightballsidepo]

rubio07 wrote:
I dont know but I have a diesel and for many years now the rule has beend the same. diesel is higher in the winter because of the heating oil production. In the summer it always come down lower
than gasoline.

Right now, I don't think the refiners have a single dime to stand on for the prices they are charging as the oil barrel prices have been consistently droppin for months now.

California, the actual unleaded regular prices have not changed much at all in the last few weeks. If there are any changes, it has been upwards in most cases.

I finally found unleaded for $2.49/gallon my San Jose, Calif. area, and thought I hit the Mother Lode! Actually it's a crying shame. The prices are being artificially held too high at this time. Heating oil shouldn't be hurting diesel prices this much as the midwest and east haven't had a harsh, cold Winter so far.

If any prices shoudl be sky-rocketing, it should be Natural gas, as the West Coast, and more notably Californ is experiencing one of it's coldest January's on record. We've recorded lows in the high teens and lower 20's F., for several days now through the evening/morning temps. That puts a real strain on Natural Gas supplies, as California is not a major heating oil user, but is a major natural gas user.

[camp_nut]

As a fleet owner we have many trucks including some duramax and cummins diesels. They are great but the new ULS fuel makes me timid about buying a 07. I currentally drive a 8.1 still has the Alli trans and make buku tourqe and is 6 grand less new and I never own them more than 5 years so a diesel didn't make any sence for me.

[rubio07]

I dont know but I have a diesel and for many years now the rule has beend the same. diesel is higher in the winter because of the heating oil production. In the summer it always come down lower
than gasoline.