Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[blt2ski]

When it comes to getting at plugs, my dad owns the last convertible Cougar from 72 off the production line, and the #8 or 7, not sure which, one of the ones in the back, has NEVER been changed! As he can not get to it with out a lift and removing stuff. Not sure what design engineers etc were thinking when it comes to stuff like this.

Dirtbag has the right way of thinking, my trucks are just that, trucks/tools to get a job done. Be them gas or diesel, they have a place and a purpose, I buy what will work effecently and safely etc.

Have a good day!
Marty

[Hannibal]

You got a ways to go frank. Took me 21 years to get over it! After market companies love you guys!

Bionic Man, I haven't looked under the hood of a Cherokee. But I'm sure the Hemi is packed in there. Peek under the hood of a PSD one time if you want to see sardine room only!

dirtbag, I like your way of thinking!:B

[Bionic_Man]

Have you ever looked under the hood of a Hemi Grand Cherokee? I guarantee you that changing the plugs is NOT an easy task.

[dfranks]

Trucks 4 years old, I bought it brand new. I always do my own maintenance and always will.
That's why I shyed away from the 6.7, pure cost, and harder to mod. I can repair or modify my injectors for probably around a grand. If I want new ones (flux's, etc) I would probably be pushing 1500 bucks, depending on what HP I want them to produce. of course I would need a bigger pump,possibly a bigger turbo for cooling and ,etc etc and the list goes on and on. I would prefer to turn up my box our turbo's are good for 500+ HP and go water/meth injection and beef up our slushy tranny for somewhere around 4500 bucks, than to mess with the injectors, the pay off just isn't there.

Hey I didn't bring politics into this you did. I was simply refering to "free country" as us. I just did not parlay that into my statement correctly.

It's diesel vs gas thread what did you expect?

[dirtbag3]

Its just a truck for Christ's sake.I wish I cared enough for an oil analysis. or keep track of mileage or rpm's on grades, I point and shoot, and just have a good time.
Here y'all go, your truck is best because -fill in blank- .
Now all go camping because winters coming.

[Hannibal]

First time diesel owners really get into it eh? I remember those days. Then the novelty wears off and it's just an engine that burns the other fuel. Enjoy it while it's still new to you.
Changing the plugs on the Hemi is not expensive at all. At 113k miles, I haven't had to change a coil. But at over $10,000 for a set of injectors for a 6.7L Cummins from the Dodge shop, I'm sure I'd rather replace a set of coils. Changing all the plugs on the Hemi is accomplished with a 10mm socket for the coils, a 3/8" ratchet, 3" extension, swivel, and spark plug socket. At 6'2" and 185, I have no trouble reaching the rear plugs. The last two on the driver's side are actually more of a knuckle scraper with the a/c lines and heater hoses crossing over. My 3/8" torque wrench easily reaches all of them.
I don't have a problem with BO as long as he leaves me Berettas alone. Just rattlin' the cage is all... Technically, we live in a Democratic Republic. We used to be Democratic Republicans until we became divided. Kinda like gasser folks and diesel folks instead of just RV'ers.:B

[blt2ski]

In actuality, a democracy is different than a "Republic" hence what we in the states "REALLY" live in per our constitution. Altho folks like to refer to our system as a "democracy" it is not truly so per the definitions last I looked.

So any way, lets keep the politics out as best we can, which both Democracy's, Republics, socialism etc, are all types of........:R:R:R:R:R:R

Marty

[dfranks]

Ok I'll bite: I actually use Extreme blue and run a Oilguard bypass(racor) with a custom built mount for under the hood. I do my oil changes at 15K with samples sent to Blackstone. As being a member of Cummins owners club, from time to time I get coupons sent to me through the mail for radiator flushes @ 1/2 price, or the buy 1 get one at 1/2 price etc. You know how it works.
If you consider maintaining 55mph on the HWY as speeding when others can't (Now I am starting to see a trend).
If you think changing plugs on the Hemi is expensive wait till you have to change their coils *yikes*. I bet you had fun taking the drivers side plug out right at the firewall huh. That one was a knuckle buster and good luck hooking up your torque wrench on that one.
As far as your president, I couldn't care less about him or his policies, if you don't like him vote hime out! you do live in a democracy don't you?

[Hannibal]

BM, I changed my plugs the first time at 68k and a few miles. The truck was still running fine but I figured it was over twice the recommended mileage so I'd go ahead and change them out. Factory double copper plugs are $2 each. $32 and about an hour with the proper hand tools is pretty inexpensive. While I didn't need to do that with my four Cummins Rams or other two diesels, it's not a big expense or difficult procedure. Lefty Loosy, righty tighty. 14ft lbs.
frank, you don't change your own oil? And you're going to "build" a hot rod Chevy? Three gallons of oil splattering out of the pan the first time you change it is half the fun! When I bought my 24v Cummins in '01.5, I missed adjusting the valves every 40k. I thought Cummins owners were hands on diesel owners with Premium Blue under their nails. I'm starting to see a trend.
Speeding while towing so fast you don't know GM never made a 498cid engine. Now that's fast! LIkes to pass on correct info eh? Maybe you should have tuned in to O'Bummer's school address.:B

[Bionic_Man]

I used to think that maintenance costs on diesels were higher than gas. I don't think that is the case anymore. The owners manual in my 05 Hemi Grand Cherokee states that I need to change the spark plugs every 30,000 miles (I think that is the interval). Changing 16 spark plugs isn't exactly inexpensive. Sure don't need to do that on my CTD.

[dfranks]

I was going by him pretty past it could have said 496ss 🙂

I get my service done at the Cummins dealer here, so it was simple as a phone call away. Unlike others I like to make sure that the info I pass on is correct.

Wouldn't surprise me if he did. That's one dude that can stay on your side of the border, have fun with him.

[Hannibal]

Don't take it so hard? I'll have to remember that one. You really don't cause me any distress. I could fake it but you've probably grown tired of hearing that too. I wasn't aware that Chrysler released any codes to anyone. They are the most proprietary of the big three or so it seems. just the same, I thought Superchips did away with torque managment in their programs? I have no desire to spend hundreds of dollars for 25hp at an rpm I don't use anyhow but just in reading over at Dodgetalk.com... I don't mind if the '08+ Cummins is locked in it's program. I run all my trucks bone stock anyhow. Even with my SO Cummins, I never made any changes except for the star wheel slipped a little in the P-7100 pumps of the '95 and '98.
Sure that wasn't 496 SS? If he had a 498, it was a rare one! I'd like to have an 8.1L GM before I look up to see grass.
You "called" Cummins to ask the weight of the engine? Man you need a hobby! So if you take the emissions and plumbing off, drain 3 gallons of oil and 15 gallons of water, set the radiator and intercooler aside and there sits the long block as it would be ordered in a crate, closer to 930 lbs.
Yep. I changed the oil in my Cummins Rams at 7500 miles and 5000 miles with the Hemi. I eat red beans and rice to make up for the horrendous cost difference. There must be an echo in here! I seem to recall stating that diesels make their horsepower at a lower rpm and therefor are more desirable for towing. Yep, the Cummins will easily out last the Hemi. Either will outlast the truck and very very few will keep a truck long enough to wear out either. If economics were so tight I was splitting hairs between the cost of the Cummins Ram versus the Hemi Ram, I'd have to give up both. Both are expensive to buy and feed. Dragging a camper around doubles the cost.
Better build your hot rod soon. Ol' Bummer is going to outlaw engines. I read it in an e-mail so it must be true!:B

[dfranks]

The HD rams have it as well, we can adjust it to vary to our specific needs thanks to programmers/ downloaders . The gassers cannot because Dodge refuses to release those codes to aftermarket world. Unfortuantely,the 08 and newer Cummins go into lock down if a new program is introduced to the ECM. Only the dealer can unlock this code resulting in warranty denial.
Going back to this weekend, it was funny because one of the trucks was a chevy that had a huge decal just behind the rear wheel well that said "498 SS".
Being Labor day this weekend the Hwy was full of 5vers and TT's, in fact our campsite is was completely full (300 sites). I guess I rounded off to 350K the same as you did with 1150lbs to 930lbs or vicea versus.
I just got off the phone with Cummins Western Canada, and they said the 5.9l is just under 1130lbs after oil,water and smog/electronics. So I guess you are right the Cummins doesn't weigh 1150lbs.

I agree with Sport45 completely. The service cost interval is slightly cheaper as well, for example longer interval on oil changes. These engines produce their macximum torque/HP at lower rpm than gas.
This equals lower RPM=longer life cycle
Higher RPM=equals lower life cycle to produce the same work.
Seeing as most of these vehicles incorporate a in-line six design they have 40% less moving parts than the typical "V" design. So it does all boil down to economics.
Hey don't take it so hard Hannibal it's all in good fun, I myself, am looking forward to building another small block chevy for a hot rod in the future.

[Hannibal]

dfranks wrote:
Dodge was the first to offer the torque management and the the intro to the fly by wire, you can't feel the truck defuel because it won't actually give you full throttle, untill you are at hwy speeds. Your 345HP is alot less than you think thanks to these 2 little gizmo, That's why I dumped it. No passage to manhood just stating the facts, I know the truth hurts but your special experiment is a joke.

I had a great weekend truck worked flawlessly. Got a chance to download my new towing file. Weather was in the high 80's, oh yeah almost forgot....passed some gassers goins up some steep grades (held my 55mph they couldn't) Met a guy who sells RV's out of Sask, has 350K on the odometer with his 05 Dodge 3500 cummins rower. Came home and bashed on you some... awesome weekend.

Well, if I can't feel it, I guess it doesn't hurt. Torque management is there to protect the transmission. So far it's worked and hasn't caused me any concern. So, if that's the truth and the HD Rams also have torque management, I'm feeling no pain. Who said anything about a special experiment? It's just something different. After 21yrs of engines that couldn't rev, I wanted to try something different. For some unknown reason, that seems to peace you off. So you say you passed some gassers going up some grades. Are gassers really that popular for towing? I don't see that many people towing period much less a flock of gassers on every grade. But if your juvenile fantasies make you happy, go ahead and let your imagination run wild. Odd how when folks make up stories of high mileage, it's always rounded off as if they met on the perfect day. It's never 348,620 miles etc, it's a perfect 350k. Good indicator of a BS story. Bash on me? I felt nothing! Glad you enjoyed it though...:B

[Sport45]

dfranks wrote:
Medium duty trucks, Semi's and heavy equipment including ships use diesel because it is a BETTER solution than gasoline power. (period)

I believe this as absolutely correct.

I also believe that if gasoline was half the cost of diesel and projected to stay that way for a few years (it isn't) then we would see a large number of MDT and OTR trucks come out with big gas engines. Why wouldn't they if it put more $$ in their pockets?

It's all dollars and cents and diesel is indeed a better solution for those situations now (and for the foreseeable future).