Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[wingdavid]

I am in the middle of a gas vs diesel decision. My 8.1L is a beast with the 4.10 rear end, the ride is better than a truck and for the last 8 years it has been great as the kids camped with us, including trips all up and down the east coast. Now I am in a position where if I want to ride from Syracuse to say myrtle beach the gas cost is making me think twice about driving my little car and grabbing a hotel.
So now that it is just my wife and I I am thinking about selling the 2001 Yukon with 60K plus miles for $12,500 (kbb private party value) and and getting a 2000 ford F350 short bed 7.3L turbo super duty with 97K miles for $10,900) I get 10mpg around town not towing and 6mpg towing in the hills and 7mpg towing on the flat at 70mph. Hoping the better mileage on the Ford would offset the higher cost of diesel in NY due to taxes. Interested in what the rest of you think about this.

[enginenut]

wow,
i think purpose built is the best way to describe the diesel and the "you will know when you need it" quote is fantastic guidance for people that read these forums trying to decide what to buy. From a technology stand point ford has really pushed the world forward with what they have attempted. it's super clean, quiet, very powerful, and really efficient. that is a very hard combination to achieve. time will tell if it's reliable but they know they are the underdogs in that regard. they are really honest about it. they know they had a problem. but still we will have to wait and see. either way things they have achieved will make it into GM and Dodge products. and like i said earlier we all benefit. just think about the performance and reliability we all enjoy with whatever brand we drive. competition raises the bar and we all win. i wish there was competition in the Yukon/Suburban space. My truck is great but it would be perect for what we do if it had the Duramax/Allison combination. But the market is too small. most people that tow heavy use pickups so thats were all the competition and graet products are

[MacRoadie]

Randywy wrote:
""Especially don't buy one if it's going to double as a daily driver/short commute vehicle. Diesels are kind of purpose built, IMO.""

#1 reason I haven't bought one.

Same here. That, and the longevity argument doesn't do it for me. If I was to go with a fiver, or tow more often/further, then I would definitely have gone with a diesel.

[Randywy]

""Especially don't buy one if it's going to double as a daily driver/short commute vehicle. Diesels are kind of purpose built, IMO.""

#1 reason I haven't bought one.

[Randywy]

Enginenut, I sure have! Ford has worked a lot of bugs out of the new models. The urea set up bugs me. Seems a primitive way to solve a modern problem. I think if I were to buy a diesel I would scour the country for an 05 Dodge. Seems to be some difference in mpg between 05's and newer. I am only goig off what the guys I work with drive. Two have 05's, one has an 08, and another has a 2500 chevy 8.1. Plus we have three older Ford f450"s at work. The crews in another part oy Wy have two 08 Fords.. Lots of issues, have to pull the cab off to work on them. :E Two new engines and a tranny to date. Engines were not warranted, mechanic used wrong antifreeze and voided it. They only idle 10 minutes then start a count down on the odometer, and then shut off.

[RFOneWatt]

Bionic Man wrote:
In exactly what climate would you need to worry about cold starts with a diesel? My 2003 goes elk hunting in November at 11,000 feet. More than once I've woke to temps of -20* & the truck starts right up without being plugged it. It takes longer to warm up than a gasser does I will admit. No urea in the still simple inline 6 Cummins.

He's obviously referring to Alaska or Antarctica. (Which isn't a problem if you keep it plugged in when not driving anyways.)

We've never had a problem here in Michigan with multiple diesel trucks/tractors of all ages. Even after days and weeks of sitting in way below 0 weather I can go to my place up north and even after sitting for months on end our 30+ year old Ford backhoe fires right up to do its duties. (NOT plugged in!)

Of course, in the winter plugging 'em in 2-3 hrs before you drive does have its benefits. (less wear and tear on the battery/starter/engine, almost instant heat.) My Jeep CRD even has a viscous heater that warms the coolant on the way to the heater core if the engine is below a certain temperature. Combine that with the heated seats, awesome mileage and...now I've lost it to the wife. 🙂

I think that if you're asking whether you NEED a diesel or gas tow vehicle, you don't need a diesel...you kinda just WANT one. When you need it, you'll know it and it will be worth the extra cost and longevity.

Especially don't buy one if it's going to double as a daily driver/short commute vehicle. Diesels are kind of purpose built, IMO.

BTW, the 2011 SD's sure are appealing. It will be interesting to see how the 6.7 does over the next few years. Personally though I'm glad I didn't buy a first model year Mexican built diesel engine. I'm not spending 50k+ to be Fords guinea pig....although I'm sure it's fine.



I just want to know why every single pick up truck I see on TV shows based in Alaska, etc. are Ford Diesels.

-T

[Bionic_Man]

In exactly what climate would you need to worry about cold starts with a diesel? My 2003 goes elk hunting in November at 11,000 feet. More than once I've woke to temps of -20* & the truck starts right up without being plugged it. It takes longer to warm up than a gasser does I will admit.

No urea in the still simple inline 6 Cummins.

[enginenut]

great point about the cold weather. and if you are considering the new Ford (and i bet GM soon) you also have to fill the UREA tank. it is a seperate tank filled thru the fuel door. It is injected into the exhaust. it heavily reduces the NoX emmissions which are a by-product of diesel combustion. the the SuperDuty is very clean but another consumable to factor in.

[overw8chevy]

one more thing is if you live in a severely cold climate,
Diesels do have issues with cold starts or fuel gelling if you don't take countermeasures.

its funny because years ago, the diesel was prized for its mechanical simplicity and fuel economy and used cheaper fuel, nowadays the gasser is simpler and with cylinder cutout technology, cheaper fuel and the fuel economy is not always all that bad, its not always a bad deal.

[enginenut]

Randywy
have you seen the new (2011) SuperDuties? awesome gas mileage and crazy quiet for a diesel. i do not own it. i am choosing between it and the Duramax. both are really excellent. I currently tow with an 07 2500 Yukon XL. we tow 10K lbs and its too much for that engine. especially in the mountains. but the Yukon is exceptional for my family and kids and has been rock solid considering how hard we use it.

[Randywy]

I have spent hours reading through this, some good info, as I had been considering a diesel. It all boils down to usege, and need I guess. It was very interesting to see this post develope over about 6 years.:E I drive a diesel every day at work, 30k miles a year, f450 flatbed. Indistructible truck! Handles 12k loads with ease. Mileage is poor,7-8 mpg, but gearing is low and top speed is 72mph. It is a 2001, with 130k on it.And very noisy. I own a gas Hemi in a 1500. I am realizing I need 3/4 ton more and more, but in a years time I don't currently tow over 3000 miles, with about 7000 not towing, and daily, to and from work 2 mile trips.Could be hard on a diesel. With diesel, .20 a gallon higher here, and the cost of a 3/4 ton used hemi versus diesel, real close to $10k difference, I am leaning towards the Hemi.

[enginenut]

overw8chevy

i really like you reference to ox and dear. great analogy. but (definitely not to argue) your anology draws out the point that there is a difference between an ox and a deer. nothing you do can make one the other. same with gas and diesel. they are quite different and you choose depending on the task. every semi is a low cylinder count diesel. performance cars are gas. and i really like your comment about this living on. it is the web. this is a forum. its all about the excange of ideas and information. lets just keep it honest, open, friendly and polite.

[overw8chevy]

Timber wrote:
Thanks enginenut, I think I'd buy a diesel handsdown but here in Ontario Ca. the diesel is $9,950.00 more plus there's a 13% tax on top of that which puts it over $11,000. I've been pouring over comments and articles to see if I can justify the extra $$ in fuel savings or longevity.

FWIW, I think this thread should live on forever in the Library of Congress. nobody has to read it if they don't want.

try and make up a 11,000 dollar difference on price with a 40% fuel economy incentive.. if all other things were equal, you have somewhere between a 5 to 10 cent price per mile bonus with the D.

IMHO,most people buy the Big D because they want one..

no doubt the D's pull like a Ox but most of the modern gassers will run like a Deer. gearing can accomplish what raw power does.

both will do the same thing.. don't let anybody tell you otherwise.

[RFOneWatt]

Timber wrote:
Thanks enginenut, I think I'd buy a diesel handsdown but here in Ontario Ca. the diesel is $9,950.00 more plus there's a 13% tax on top of that which puts it over $11,000. I've been pouring over comments and articles to see if I can justify the extra $$ in fuel savings or longevity.

It really all depends what you do with your truck and your personal preferences. I've towed all over the country (mostly out west) with gas vehicles (all Expedition 5.4's, except for my '99 which was a 4.6)and found that if you are going to be spending any time towing where mountains and/or steep grades are involved, GET THE DIESEL.

After upgrading my TV from a 2007 Expedition to a 2010 F250 6.4l I will NEVER tow with a gas vehicle again, and if I HAD to it WOULD be a V10. Sure my Expy did JUST O.K. in the mountains but it was being pushed to its limits (literally) and I like quite a bit more of a safety margin than that. I also know that once my Expy had a few more hard summers-of-towing under it's belt it would be time for some major repairs.

I didn't have to pull over one time on this years road trip. Granted it was in the mountains of WV rather than those of Wyoming/Utah but I never felt underpowered once. No more "to the floor" driving and plenty of torque to drag my toy hauler off the beaten path to where it's meant to be. (And to pull my toy hauler out of the rut I was forced to drive into this year when I saw a logging truck barreling down the mountain straight towards me!!) I'm sure I would have had to get the winch out after that if I was in the Expy.

If you stay on interstates, drive slow, have a smaller trailer and stay in big campgrounds you'll do OK with a V8..

I'm just spoiled now. 🙂

-T

[Timber]

Thanks enginenut, I think I'd buy a diesel handsdown but here in Ontario Ca. the diesel is $9,950.00 more plus there's a 13% tax on top of that which puts it over $11,000. I've been pouring over comments and articles to see if I can justify the extra $$ in fuel savings or longevity.