Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[Jarlaxle]

But how many vehicles that have been worked are still in "good" condition after 200,000 miles?

Plenty of them. My old F-350 had 366,000 miles & most people guessed it at having about a third of that. My uncle's Dakota looks like someone has turned the odometer forward about 200,000 miles (he has 280K on it)--it's been repainted (5 years ago), but the interior is original except the floor mats.

[Sport45]

Jarlaxle wrote:
It has a gas 460 (replaced a gas 370) & a Spicer 5-speed with 2-speed axle. The front clip is the same as a 1984 F-700.

Selling a diesel with 200K is very easy if it's in good condition.

But how many vehicles that have been worked are still in "good" condition after 200,000 miles? Sure, there are people that take meticulous care of there vehicles, getting out the spot remover every time a drop of soda hits the carpet, but even those guys start slacking off after 100,000 miles or so. Most 200,000 mile vehicles I see need carpet and upholstery work have a fair number of door dings, bumper dents, and stone chips in the windshield. They will often also have a window or two that doesn’t go up and down quite right and an elbow hole in the left door armrest. 200,000 miles puts wear on the whole vehicle, not just the engine.

I think we had a 370 in a F-600 or 700 gang truck when I roustabouted in 1980 (probably a ’77 or ’78 model). Pretty stout engine for the displacement. The 460 probably gives you better mpg’s though. If I recall, the 370 wasn’t a gas sipper.

[Diesel-Dude]

The 351 Windsors can chew up rear main seals as well. Changed a few of 'em over the years, and I've never even owned a Ford. BTW. My very first vehicle was a Dodge D-100 with an old 318-2bbl (very much a gasser). That truck had over 260,000 miles when I sold it. The truck was rotted to the ground but it ran every day! Diesel or gas, if you take care of them most engines will outlast the vehicles they are sitting in.

[Jarlaxle]

It has a gas 460 (replaced a gas 370) & a Spicer 5-speed with 2-speed axle. The front clip is the same as a 1984 F-700.

Selling a diesel with 200K is very easy if it's in good condition.

[Sport45]

My last pickup was a '92 F-150 SC 2WD with the 5.0L V-8. It spend the first 150,000 miles of it's life as an oilfield company truck. I worked with the driver and knew it had been maintained well. I bought it and put another 83,000 miles on it before my boys outgrew the back seat. 233,000 miles and the only engine repairs were two rear oil seals. (302's seem to be notorious for rear seals.) We worked the snot out of that truck but the engine and driveline were still in good condition after almost a quarter-million miles. Engine longevity has more to do with your mainenance program than anything else. And with 200,000+ miles on any truck, gas or diesel, you'll be hard pressed to find eager buyers. Those vehicles are almost certain to go to wholesalers and, in the Houston area anyway, be shipped to Mexico.

Why would engine longevity be a concern when you don't intend to keep the vehicle for the life of the engine? When was the last time you saw someone bragging about having 200,000 miles on their tow vehicle? It's usually just the opposite, you see people bragging about their new truck and how it performs so much better than the last year's model that they just traded in.

John,

Not to change the subject, but what engine and tranny do you have in the '84 school bus conversion? Was Ford using the 3208 then? I have a '83 F-100 that was my dad's and my son now uses as a daily driver. Love the body style of the '80 - '86 Fords, but don't know if the bus got the same front end.

[BertP]

Talk to Ford. They are the ones who specify the life expectancy of the engines in their vehicles, not me. The CTD has a life expectancy of 350,000 miles according to Cummins and Dodge. Neither the PSD nor the DMax come close to that.

Bert

[Jarlaxle]

Only the CTD has a longer life expectancy than the gassers. The PSD and DMax have the same life expectancy as the gassers.

Bull. There are PSD's with over 1,000,000 miles...show me a V10 with 1,000,000 miles. Show me a V-10 with 23,000 hours on it.

[BertP]

ohioviper wrote:
I may step on some toes but anyone driving a v10 or big block gas hog getting under 10 mpg needs to re think their philosophy on I dont need one. The new diesels are quiet as any of the gassers and out pull

Check the pulloff at pickuptruck.com. The gassers pull just as well as the diesels.

ohioviper wrote:
,outlast,

Only the CTD has a longer life expectancy than the gassers. The PSD and DMax have the same life expectancy as the gassers.

ohioviper wrote:
out perform mpg

True.

ohioviper wrote:
so whats your excuse ?

One out of three hardly warrent spending an extra $5,000+ for a diesel just to save a few mpg. I have a diesel because I prefer diesels, but many others prefer gassers.

Bert

[Sport45]

ohioviper wrote:
I may step on some toes but anyone driving a v10 or big block gas hog getting under 10 mpg needs to re think their philosophy on I dont need one. The new diesels are quiet as any of the gassers and out pull,outlast,out perform mpg so whats your excuse ?

It's the extra money upfront that the diesel costs. I only get less than 10mpg when pulling a heavy trailer. I only do that about 10 weekends a year. I've averaged 13.2 mpg overall with my V-10 (including the sub 10 mpg tanks). I've had my truck 3 months shy of 7 years and have 80,000 miles on it. I'm still ahead as far as extra fuel cost vs extra engine cost goes. I'm ahead on maintenance costs. For my situation what's not to like about the gasoline engine?

I've always allowed that diesels have their place. If you pull heavy and frequently (like the big rigs) it's a no-brainer, get a diesel. If you don't pull heavy and often, think about it and get what you need or pay for what you want. Your choice. I'm happy with the choice I made. In my case, fuel isn't a large enough part of the life-cycle cost of ownership to make a difference.

The big rigs don't run diesel because they climb hills better or anything like that. Fuel is a vey significant part of their life-cycle cost. They run 12+ hours a day at 80+ % of their weight capacity 365 days a year. Hardly typical duty for the run of the mill pickup owner. If it was cheaper to run gasoline then most every big rig in America would eventually be a gasser and we'd be complaining about how slow it is to follow them up hills. The truck owners really don't care how fast the drivers can make it up a hill as long as they can get to the top.

It's a different mindset with personally owned vehicles. For us, it seems to be more of a race. We spend extra money for convienence and power, maybe even bragging rights.

[ohioviper]

I may step on some toes but anyone driving a v10 or big block gas hog getting under 10 mpg needs to re think their philosophy on I dont need one. The new diesels are quiet as any of the gassers and out pull,outlast,out perform mpg so whats your excuse ?

[Dieselphil]

Simple:
My 1997 gasser pulling the trailer up Twain Heart Grade in 1st gear at 32mpg and trip fuel at 6mpg.
My 2006 pulling the same trailer up Twain Heart Grade in 3rd gear backing off the throttle at 55mph and trip fuel at 11.5mpg.

nuf said

[fleetcheeks]

I purchased a 2004 Ford PSD to tow a 36 foot Cameo so far I am very pleased. Traded in a 1991 Ford 460 gasser that got 9 MPG loaded---empty--towing---or whatever. The PSD if getting 17+--I am loving it. But my reason for responding is: I am the fleet purchaser for a western state and we are having a lot of trouble with 01 Dodge transmissions. I have replaced 15 or 20 of them so far this year---so if you are considering an earlier Cummins with an automatic trans --look out! The engine is great, but the trans is real weak.

[Sport45]

By all means...

We don't need to use our gray matter. We only have to know this:

If the vehicle has a bed or trailer hitch, it has to have a diesel.

If you will ever drive on terrain that doesn't look like a pool table, it has to have a diesel.

If you are a little old person who will only drive to church on Sunday (and the road is absolutely flat and level) it's okay to have a gasoline engine.

Just think, we could all have diesels. We could all remove the cats and chip them and before long we could all wear bandanas over our noses and mouths because our air would be just like Manila's or Bangkok's.

Geeze, why can't everyone just choose what's right for themselves. The answer isn't always diesel and it isn't always gasoline. Heck, it might even be propane or some other flex fuel. It's not a vote, it's a decision.

'nuff said.

Why kill a thread when folks are still asking valid questions and getting valid answers?

[TexasBorn]

WOW, TT=Diesel Nuff said. Lets kill this thread.

🙂

[Sport45]

banjoppd wrote:
I'm in a similar situation as cristal444. We are new to TT camping and we are looking for a TV. We are looking for a TV that will fit our daily needs too. The TV will be my DW primary mode of transportation to and from work 20 miles round trip. We will probably go out 4 to 6 times a year because we are still fulltime workers. Our longest trip may be 300 miles once a year. It's pretty flat in TX except for TX hill country.

If it's going to be your wife's primary vehicle let her decide what she wants. If she wants something she can just jump in, turn the key, and go get a gas engine and live with the fewer mpgs and somewwhat slower hill climbs. Do you really want to make her live with a diesel so once a year you can top a hill at 70 with a trailer?

Like others have said. Evaluate your overall use and go from there. If towing needs change several years down the road, re-evaluate then. Don't spend a lot of money for something you "may need" down the road unless you really have the money to spend.

I drive a V-10 F250 Crew Cab. I'm first to admit that diesels have more torque and get better mileage. But that didn't mean I needed one. In the 70's and 80's you could get 454 to 460 cubic inche gas engines in pickups. They made a lot more torque than their small-block counterparts. But the small blocks ruled the market. You might see a big block under the hood of 20% of the pickups on the road. I don't know why the more than adequate gas engines now have such a small following. Has America's disposable income really climbed that much? If folks weren't jumping at the chance to spend $300 for more torque then, why are they spending $5000 and more for it now? Many of us don't believe the diesel will "pay for itself" unless you spend an awful lot of time on the road with a heavy load (like the big rigs).