Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[Hannibal]

John and Taco are right. Transamz9, in which gear at what rpm? There are a lot of variables and torque multiplications you seem to be leaving out.

[Jarlaxle]

bkirkpatrick wrote:

Taco wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

Hannibal wrote:
Depends on your definition of good. As fast, yes. 345hp will tow as fast as 325hp.

Do you know the torque of that rice burner? HP ain't everything.

Torque is twisting force. Horsepower is a measurement of work over time.

Provided enough torque and gearing to allow the engine to rev to the rpm range where it produces it's maximum power then the engine with the higher horsepower will perform more work over time. I.E. Tow faster.

Diesel in the opinion of many people may tow "Better" in that it feels like it is towing more effortlessly because it makes it's power at lower rpm and gets better fuel mileage. But a gasser given sufficient gearing to allow the engine to get into it's powerband will tow just as fast and maintain speed on grade just as well. It will just do so at higher rpm and use more fuel.

Just chiming in here but what about the longevity of diesels over gas? I know they have a higher up front cost but the back-end longevity would make them a better buy for someone who was going to keep their truck for a longer period of time.

Sure the diesel oil change is more expensive but I don't know many diesels that are blowing valves or having "gas" type repairs. Plus, purchase a diesel and a gas truck and tow them right out of the gate and see who is still standing after the 100k mile flip. There is a reason that the truck industry uses diesel.

On a side note, I tow a 15k toy hauler and I don't know if the v10 would be able to keep up with the diesel. Maybe with a supercharger as a secondary power additive but I have not seen anyone chime in on the v10.

Local towing company is repowering their repo truck. It's a 2001 F-550 4x4 with a gas V10. It only went 553,000 miles! And being a tow truck, you KNOW those were pretty hard miles.

[Jarlaxle]

transamz9 wrote:

Hannibal wrote:
Depends on your definition of good. As fast, yes. 345hp will tow as fast as 325hp.

Do you know the torque of that rice burner? HP ain't everything.

Actually, when it comes to figuring hillclimbing...yes, it is!

[Taco]

I personally don't expect a light truck diesel like the powerstroke or duramax to have any longer life expectancy than a gas engine. My workplace has plenty of gas trucks well well past 200k. Businesses that run full size service vans regularly run the gas engines to 300k.

Fleet buyers of light trucks have also trended towards gas lately. They are the ones that should have the greatest handle on life cycle costs of both.

I don't think the gas lasts longer than the diesel but also think it lasts no less either. I do think the gas is cheaper to fix outside of warranty.

The trucking industry uses diesel also partly because of mileage and startability from the low end torque.

Keep in mind that a light truck diesel isn't the same diesel that powers a mack or pete down the road. The light truck diesels rev much higher and aren't built with million mile longevity in mind.

[bkirkpatrick]

Taco wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

Hannibal wrote:
Depends on your definition of good. As fast, yes. 345hp will tow as fast as 325hp.

Do you know the torque of that rice burner? HP ain't everything.

Torque is twisting force. Horsepower is a measurement of work over time.

Provided enough torque and gearing to allow the engine to rev to the rpm range where it produces it's maximum power then the engine with the higher horsepower will perform more work over time. I.E. Tow faster.

Diesel in the opinion of many people may tow "Better" in that it feels like it is towing more effortlessly because it makes it's power at lower rpm and gets better fuel mileage. But a gasser given sufficient gearing to allow the engine to get into it's powerband will tow just as fast and maintain speed on grade just as well. It will just do so at higher rpm and use more fuel.

Just chiming in here but what about the longevity of diesels over gas? I know they have a higher up front cost but the back-end longevity would make them a better buy for someone who was going to keep their truck for a longer period of time.

Sure the diesel oil change is more expensive but I don't know many diesels that are blowing valves or having "gas" type repairs. Plus, purchase a diesel and a gas truck and tow them right out of the gate and see who is still standing after the 100k mile flip. There is a reason that the truck industry uses diesel.

On a side note, I tow a 15k toy hauler and I don't know if the v10 would be able to keep up with the diesel. Maybe with a supercharger as a secondary power additive but I have not seen anyone chime in on the v10.

[Taco]

transamz9 wrote:

Hannibal wrote:
Depends on your definition of good. As fast, yes. 345hp will tow as fast as 325hp.

Do you know the torque of that rice burner? HP ain't everything.

Torque is twisting force. Horsepower is a measurement of work over time.

Provided enough torque and gearing to allow the engine to rev to the rpm range where it produces it's maximum power then the engine with the higher horsepower will perform more work over time. I.E. Tow faster.

Diesel in the opinion of many people may tow "Better" in that it feels like it is towing more effortlessly because it makes it's power at lower rpm and gets better fuel mileage. But a gasser given sufficient gearing to allow the engine to get into it's powerband will tow just as fast and maintain speed on grade just as well. It will just do so at higher rpm and use more fuel.

[transamz9]

Hannibal wrote:
Depends on your definition of good. As fast, yes. 345hp will tow as fast as 325hp.

Do you know the torque of that rice burner? HP ain't everything.

[Hannibal]

Depends on your definition of good. As fast, yes. 345hp will tow as fast as 325hp.

[transamz9]

So are you saying that you 345 hp Hemi will tow as good as my 325 hp Cummins? Well, maybe 425 Cummins........

[Hannibal]

64thunderbolt wrote:

Hannibal wrote:
We don't tow a small little trailer and shower in hotels. We tow a 30ft 5th wheel and stay in various campgrounds. We're also very happy with our truck's performance. We keep up with traffic. Sorry if that peaces you off. :B

Doesent p me off at all. I'm happy you are satisfied with your rig and enjoying it. I just take issue with the info you put out about a gasser being a better tow vehicle than a diesel. I don't care how much you preach this, it's just not true in the real world.

Please quote anywhere that I said "a gasser is a better tow vehicle than a diesel". The only issue you seem to have is telling the truth. My Hemi Ram towed the same 10k lb 5th wheel faster up the grades than my '03 duplicate SO 250hp Cummins Ram. That's a fact. I never said the Hemi was a "better tow vehicle". 345 hp will tow faster than 250hp no matter what fuel it burns. That you can quote me on. We tow in the real world. Not sure where you're coming from.

[64thunderbolt]

Hannibal wrote:
We don't tow a small little trailer and shower in hotels. We tow a 30ft 5th wheel and stay in various campgrounds. We're also very happy with our truck's performance. We keep up with traffic. Sorry if that peaces you off. :B

Doesent p me off at all. I'm happy you are satisfied with your rig and enjoying it. I just take issue with the info you put out about a gasser being a better tow vehicle than a diesel. I don't care how much you preach this, it's just not true in the real world.

[jevanb]

i came from a v10 to a 7.3 to a 6.0 and now a dyno proven 425hp 6.6 i will out pull any gasser even when my eng was stock peoples think the gasser are so superior but guess what? then are only good for groceries i get 22.5 hwy empty and 18 city load up the bed with a 18k toyhauler and still get 11.5 try that with a gasser...

[Hannibal]

We don't tow a small little trailer and shower in hotels. We tow a 30ft 5th wheel and stay in various campgrounds. We're also very happy with our truck's performance. We keep up with traffic. Sorry if that peaces you off. :B

[64thunderbolt]

First I don't travel just the interstate hwys and stay in a KOA. second, If you only travel the Interstates in the southeast I can understand part of your feelings. Here in Az we do a lot of camping in the forrest. We have some 2 lanes here in Az. with 9/10% grades. Slow down to 20 for a curve and then see which one pulls better. I think a diesel with around 800lbft of torque will win that one every time. Trust me if I didn't need one for towing in the conditions I do I would be happy with a gasser on flat ground & a small little trailer looking for a motel to shower in. But this not real world comparisons. A test on a straight line on a closed rd is not real world info. No traffic or turns to slow you down. Probably weren't any head wind, cars cutting them off etc. And I expect to get 3-500,000 miles out of my eng. In the end the diesel is as thrifty as a gasser. I think we can respectfully disagree because there are too many differences in our type of operating. Example, on I-17 from Camp Verde to Flagstaff there's 17 miles of 5/6% constant. You really think a gasser is gonna hold the hwy speed with a 13K trailer? I think not. Ad to that 100*+ temps. I hope I haven't ruffled too many feathers but I know how it is here.

I'm not trying to come off being disrespectful but in our world out west the diesel will win.

Call me speedy if you like. No drag racing going on just cruising up the hill and not holding up traffic. but I'll take on a gasser any time out here in the mtns with equal wgt.

As for value, why would I want another truck this one will last as long as I will.

[Taco]

Just looked up NADA values base gas engine vs diesel engine. all three makes 2002 2500 ext cab 4x4 mid trim level. The diesel engine averaged about 4400 more value retail. Which we can't get retail not being a dealer. The private party value is a few hundred less.

there is no way you are getting a 10k premium for a 10 year old diesel.