Electric heater vs using furnace in fall?

[temccarthy1]

Need advice from experienced campers since wife and I only started this year and have camped only 10 nights due to P/T job getting in the way after retiring....We have a 2014 Keystone Bullet 285 RLS TT that is 30 ft long. Has a propane Dometic 30,000 BTU furnace that heats well and fast.. We have only camped where there is electric and plan on that being the majority of our camping. When we are camping in fall as we did in October and have chilly nights , would it be more economical to use a small electric thermostatic heater for just the 2 of us in the bedroom and not run the furnace at night until we get up in morning, or even purchase 2 heaters and use most of the time when needed and not the propane at all? I have no idea how much propane we are using to heat since we only camped 5 nights in the fall and haven't used 1 of the 2 tanks up yet.. What do you think? We will of course be paying for propane when needed but not for electric. Also, can the wiring handle 2- 1500 watt heaters -- total 3000 watts approximately which I would estimate would be enough? We are not camping when it is below freezing so that is not an issue for the tanks or water lines... no lower than 40's. Appreciate hearing from experienced TT campers..

[temccarthy1]

SoundGuy wrote:

temccarthy1 wrote:
Sound Guy.. The MAIN reason I would spend $259 for that unit is to protect my CC from low and high voltage in a CG which I am reading are VERY common..

Tim ... you're preaching to the choir as I myself own a Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C, using it to replace the portable TRC #34730 I've used for the last two years to protect our trailer's electrical system. My point simply was that since you're not getting this EMS for awhile yet you'd find an inexpensive Kill-a-Watt meter to be an extremely useful tool regardless.

OK.. Didn't know that. Thought you were advocating the Kill A Watt in place of the Portable device. I wont be using my TT until Spring at which time I will have the unit. Thanks for clearing it up

[CavemanCharlie]

LarryJM wrote:

gdhillard wrote:
I think I am going with this:
http://www.amazon.com/US-Stove-AGDV12L-Ashley-Propane/dp/B011JHT940
I'll pull the old furnace, and mount this in it's place.

Unless you have a VERY SMALL 20' or so trailer, doing what you are thinking of IMO would be a HUGE MISTAKE. A lot of furnaces are in the 30K+ BTU range and are ducted and replacing that with one 1/3 the size and non ducted is .... WELL Burrrrrrrr:E

Larry

I'm not so sure of that. I had a (I'll admit very small) once that was 14 feet long with no insulation. It had a old "gravity feed" furnace in it that was basically just a flame in a box. It worked quite well and I was bummed when it quit working and I found out I could not get parts for it.

It is true that a furnace without a fan would heat up the space much slower. But, once the TT is warm it makes little differrnce.

I've had, and still have, friends that live in houses with just a wood burning stove setting in the house. Takes a long time to heat the house up but, once warm all you have to do is keep throwing logs on the fire. You have to stay home all winter long though to keep the fire going and the house warm.

[SoundGuy]

temccarthy1 wrote:
Sound Guy.. The MAIN reason I would spend $259 for that unit is to protect my CC from low and high voltage in a CG which I am reading are VERY common..

Tim ... you're preaching to the choir as I myself own a Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C, using it to replace the portable TRC #34730 I've used for the last two years to protect our trailer's electrical system. My point simply was that since you're not getting this EMS for awhile yet you'd find an inexpensive Kill-a-Watt meter to be an extremely useful tool regardless.

[temccarthy1]

SoundGuy wrote:

temccarthy1 wrote:
That's my plan until I get my progressive Industries electrical management device next year that will give me constant amp readings, then I'll know what my cushions are on each appliance and electronics.

SoundGuy wrote:
Certainly an EMS will provide power draw measurements but so to will an inexpensive Kill-a-Watt Meter. Rarely will an electric heater labeled as "1500 watts" actually draw anywhere near that ... I've got several and they range from ~ 950 watts to ~ 1400 watts on the highest setting. Measure what you have and you'll know, not just be guessing. 😉

LarryJM wrote:
However a Kill a Watt won't give you TOTAL CURRENT draw to effectively manage say a 30A limited trailer when you now have enough LOADS that can easily exceed that 30A.

Obviously ... but that's not what the OP was concerned with but rather with what his "cushions are on each appliance" - his words, and for that purpose an EMS is not the best tool as it only reads to the nearest amp whereas a Kill-a-Watt meter reads to the hundredth AND provides power consumption readings in watts and VA, along with PF, none of which the EMS does. He's planning on installing an EMS for next season, I'm just suggesting that in the meantime he invest a few $$ in a Kill-a-Watt meter as well.

Sound Guy.. The MAIN reason I would spend $259 for that unit is to protect my CC from low and high voltage in a CG which I am reading are VERY common.. especially LOW which can do major damage and certainly shorten the life of the AC. An extra benefit of the Progressive Industries unit is that it also gives amp , voltage and cycles readouts to help me "estimate" my usage. Doesn't matter to me if it rounds to nearest amp.. just close so I know if my 2 heaters should be on low or high, and approx. what each appliance draws so I don't throw a breaker.. Appreciate your detail though! Just feel I can both protect and measure with 1 device, not 2. THANKS for your input!

[westend]

gdhillard wrote:
Westend, I would love a link to that Sportsman heater. Sounds just like what I am looking for.

They are no longer made but similar "stoves" are available.

Sportsman:




Similar heaters can be found at suppliers like Fish house supply

[SoundGuy]

gdhillard wrote:
My trailer is a 1969 Terry, 18 foot. The furnace is not ducted at all, and is rated 11,000BTU, so I should have enough heat. I suspect that the Ashley is more efficient, so I might even be a bit ahead.

I wouldn't be so sure. My 2014 Freedom Express 192RBS measures 22' 6" coupler to bumper but the box is just 18' 6" and is running a direct blow Suburban 7920 Series II furnace rated at 18,000 BTU input but just 13,680 BTU output. With such a small space to deal with and a high speed fan to distribute the heat it can warm up the trailer's interior quite rapidly BUT it's likely putting out twice as much heat energy as that Ashley heater you've linked to which is passive and doesn't have any fan to distribute the small amount of heat it produces. Considering it's significant cost vs the cost of a couple of 1500 watt electric heaters that together would also be rated at over 11,000 BTU it would be really difficult to justify the cost of this Ashley heater despite the fact it doesn't require electric power to operate.

[gdhillard]

My trailer is a 1969 Terry, 18 foot. The furnace is not ducted at all, and is rated 11,000BTU, so I should have enough heat. I suspect that the Ashley is more efficient, so I might even be a bit ahead.

[SoundGuy]

temccarthy1 wrote:
That's my plan until I get my progressive Industries electrical management device next year that will give me constant amp readings, then I'll know what my cushions are on each appliance and electronics.

SoundGuy wrote:
Certainly an EMS will provide power draw measurements but so to will an inexpensive Kill-a-Watt Meter. Rarely will an electric heater labeled as "1500 watts" actually draw anywhere near that ... I've got several and they range from ~ 950 watts to ~ 1400 watts on the highest setting. Measure what you have and you'll know, not just be guessing. 😉

LarryJM wrote:
However a Kill a Watt won't give you TOTAL CURRENT draw to effectively manage say a 30A limited trailer when you now have enough LOADS that can easily exceed that 30A.

Obviously ... but that's not what the OP was concerned with but rather with what his "cushions are on each appliance" - his words, and for that purpose an EMS is not the best tool as it only reads to the nearest amp whereas a Kill-a-Watt meter reads to the hundredth AND provides power consumption readings in watts and VA, along with PF, none of which the EMS does. He's planning on installing an EMS for next season, I'm just suggesting that in the meantime he invest a few $$ in a Kill-a-Watt meter as well.

[LarryJM]

SoundGuy wrote:

temccarthy1 wrote:
That's my plan until I get my progressive Industries electrical management device next year that will give me constant amp readings, then I'll know what my cushions are on each appliance and electronics.

Certainly an EMS will provide power draw measurements but so to will an inexpensive Kill-a-Watt Meter. Rarely will an electric heater labeled as "1500 watts" actually draw anywhere near that ... I've got several and they range from ~ 950 watts to ~ 1400 watts on the highest setting. Measure what you have and you'll know, not just be guessing. 😉

However a Kill a Watt won't give you TOTAL CURRENT draw to effectively manage say a 30A limited trailer when you now have enough LOADS that can easily exceed that 30A. Personally, I've found my remote reading display on my PI 30A unit to be INVALUABLE in effectively managing the 30A OEM side of my upgraded 60A total power system. Even with my WH not on electric I can exceed 30A if I have the AC on with just a coffee pot plugged in and I turn on the OEM microwave which draws 14A.

Larry

[LarryJM]

gdhillard wrote:
I think I am going with this:
http://www.amazon.com/US-Stove-AGDV12L-Ashley-Propane/dp/B011JHT940
I'll pull the old furnace, and mount this in it's place.

Unless you have a VERY SMALL 20' or so trailer, doing what you are thinking of IMO would be a HUGE MISTAKE. A lot of furnaces are in the 30K+ BTU range and are ducted and replacing that with one 1/3 the size and non ducted is .... WELL Burrrrrrrr:E

Larry

[gdhillard]

I think I am going with this:
http://www.amazon.com/US-Stove-AGDV12L-Ashley-Propane/dp/B011JHT940
I'll pull the old furnace, and mount this in it's place.

[CavemanCharlie]

gdhillard wrote:
Westend, I would love a link to that Sportsman heater. Sounds just like what I am looking for.

X2

All the direct vent propane heaters I've found are too large for RV's and put out too many BTU's too. I would love to find a small one that uses no (or very little) electricity

[gdhillard]

Westend, I would love a link to that Sportsman heater. Sounds just like what I am looking for.

[fallsrider]

harley4275 wrote:
I don't know if it was mentioned here earlier, but I just read somewhere that someone put the electric heater next to the intake for the propane forced air furnace and just ran the fan on low to keep the underbelly warmish and inside warm in cold weather. no propane used and seemed like a good idea if you can keep the fan on low.

Maybe some trailers have that capability, but on our trailer (DuoTherm a/c and thermostat), I cannot run just the furnace fan. It has one speed, and the fan will only run when the furnace is producing heat.

I can run the ducted a/c fan, though, without the a/c. It has 3 speeds. So we run it on low every night regardless of whether we need a/c, nothing, or heat. This gives us white noise, as well as keeps the heat or a/c evenly distributed.

If someone has the capability to run their furnace fan without heat, then I could see why they would use it. Especially if they don't have ducted a/c.