Engine replacement . Ecoboost and GM 5.3

[MARK_VANDERBENT]

Have 330,000 on my 2009 suburban 5.3 . Pricing out New motor for the future . Can get New motor installed for around 6500. My mechanic had a 2012 f150 he was replacing ecoboost motor on, and he told me that motor replacement was 11,500 with new turbos . Was thinking that was crazy expensive! Is that really a realistic price for replacing those motors?

[colliehauler]

Don't want to get into this argument but that shop rate also includes expenses that I don't incurre if I do it myself. The building, property tax, insurance, utilities, secretary / bookkeeper and tools and equipment.

[Grit_dog]

Y’all are never going to convince tdz of this.
Yes, he’s 100% right that a guy with a box full of tools and some average mechanical aptitude can save a great deal of money fixing his own vehicles.
The rest is la la land to him. He’s even contradicted himself like over income and yes refuses to realize the costs involved with running a legit shop.

[Lantley]

twodownzero wrote:

Lantley wrote:

Have you ever actually turned wrenches for a living?
If you have, than I think you would understand the cost involved.
Your comments don't reflect a true understanding of overhead cost.
There is a big difference in perspective between being employed and being the owner when it come to understanding the cost and challenges of running a shop.

Yes I have. I also live in an area where labor is cheap, and I do my own work now. Still don't agree. Surprised so many people can't internalize the idea that I do not value the service at the market price. It's my money. I can value my time at whatever dollar value I want. That's the idea of value; it's subjective. I'd rather fix my own stuff than pay the market price, so I do. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Actually I respect and understand the idea that you prefer to do your own work because you do not want to pay market price.
However where we disagree is that some how the market price is inflated and a rip off.
When we get into overhead cost, there are a lot of fees and charges that I pay, that I prefer not to pay. Before I can turn one screw these fees must be paid. There may not be a big difference in skill level between a shade tree mechanic and a licensed shop. But there is a huge difference in cost incurred / overhead by a licensed shop vs. a shade tree mechanic.
You seem to ignore these cost in your analysis. The licensed shops would love to ignore these cost as well,however the reality is they must pay these cost which have a significant impact on the final price charged to the consumer

[shadows4]

MARK VANDERBENT wrote:
The quote I got for my motor is a jasper reman 3 year 100,000 mile warranty. It comes with new water pump, plugs , wires , belts , hoses. I had 3 different quotes and they were all within 5 to 7 hundred different.

FYI, I had a buddy went through 2 Jegs 5.3 motors before insisting on a remanufactured GM motor the third time. Don't remember what the problem was with the Jegs but it was the same thing both times.

[twodownzero]

Lantley wrote:

Have you ever actually turned wrenches for a living?
If you have, than I think you would understand the cost involved.
Your comments don't reflect a true understanding of overhead cost.
There is a big difference in perspective between being employed and being the owner when it come to understanding the cost and challenges of running a shop.

Yes I have. I also live in an area where labor is cheap, and I do my own work now. Still don't agree. Surprised so many people can't internalize the idea that I do not value the service at the market price. It's my money. I can value my time at whatever dollar value I want. That's the idea of value; it's subjective. I'd rather fix my own stuff than pay the market price, so I do. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[mich800]

Lantley wrote:

twodownzero wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

twodownzero wrote:

I do wear a suit and am a professional, and I used to teach the difference between revenue and profit to students. As such, I know that I could certainly make more than I make in a month if I could get two $3,000 jobs that took me 4 days to complete. Even if I could only do it at half the speed of book rate, I could work 8 days instead of 20 days a month and make the same money. That sounds like a pretty good deal to me!

Of course, if you are a shade tree type (no insurance, no history, no certifications, iffy warranty, etc...), customers are going to expect a big discount compared to a professional shop.

Yes you can make money turning wrenches on the side but it's not a get rich quick plan.

These kinds of responses seem to indicate that consumers think they're getting something other than what they're actually getting when they take their vehicles to a shop. Over 15 years ago, I was employed by a shop. We had regular customers, but much of our work was fixing things that other shops couldn't.

There is no guarantee that any business has insurance that will cover any consumer's expense. "History" is irrelevant if they've never worked on a car like yours or diagnosed the condition yours has. Warranty comes from the parts manufacturers; hardly any of them pay labor claims when their parts fail. Certifications are as worthless as the paper they're printed on--they are used primarily within corporate systems to get people raises.

Nobody's ever going to convince me that $3000 to replace an OHV V8 is a good price. That is robbery. I would quit my job tomorrow to work for that kind of money turning wrenches as a parts replacer, because that's what this job is. Replacing an engine requires no meaningful amount of skill or diagnosis. It's a remove and replace kind of job.

Reading threads like this makes me so happy that I never have to depend on another person to perform work like this. I am far from rich, but I make much more money than the median worker in our economy and I could probably not afford to drive at all if it cost that kind of money.

Have you ever actually turned wrenches for a living?
If you have, than I think you would understand the cost involved.
Your comments don't reflect a true understanding of overhead cost.
There is a big difference in perspective between being employed and being the owner when it come to understanding the cost and challenges of running a shop.

When someon compains about someones trade skills and prices it always reminds me of the story:


A man calls a plumber to his home to solve a problem with one of his pipes. The plumber looks around and listens for about 10 minutes, and then he grabs a pipe wrench and hits a pipe three or four times in the same place. The problem is quickly solved. The plumber then hands the man his bill, and the man is shocked to see that the invoice is for $200. The man objects, “How on earth can you charge $200 for simply banging on a pipe three or four times with a pipe wrench? I demand that you clarify this bill.” The plumber takes the invoice from the man, recalculates it, and hands it back. The invoice now reads:

Item one: Hitting the pipe with a pipe wrench–$2.00

Item two: Knowing to hit the pipe with the pipe wrench–$99

Item three: Knowing where and how to hit it–$99.

[Lantley]

twodownzero wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

twodownzero wrote:

I do wear a suit and am a professional, and I used to teach the difference between revenue and profit to students. As such, I know that I could certainly make more than I make in a month if I could get two $3,000 jobs that took me 4 days to complete. Even if I could only do it at half the speed of book rate, I could work 8 days instead of 20 days a month and make the same money. That sounds like a pretty good deal to me!

Of course, if you are a shade tree type (no insurance, no history, no certifications, iffy warranty, etc...), customers are going to expect a big discount compared to a professional shop.

Yes you can make money turning wrenches on the side but it's not a get rich quick plan.

These kinds of responses seem to indicate that consumers think they're getting something other than what they're actually getting when they take their vehicles to a shop. Over 15 years ago, I was employed by a shop. We had regular customers, but much of our work was fixing things that other shops couldn't.

There is no guarantee that any business has insurance that will cover any consumer's expense. "History" is irrelevant if they've never worked on a car like yours or diagnosed the condition yours has. Warranty comes from the parts manufacturers; hardly any of them pay labor claims when their parts fail. Certifications are as worthless as the paper they're printed on--they are used primarily within corporate systems to get people raises.

Nobody's ever going to convince me that $3000 to replace an OHV V8 is a good price. That is robbery. I would quit my job tomorrow to work for that kind of money turning wrenches as a parts replacer, because that's what this job is. Replacing an engine requires no meaningful amount of skill or diagnosis. It's a remove and replace kind of job.

Reading threads like this makes me so happy that I never have to depend on another person to perform work like this. I am far from rich, but I make much more money than the median worker in our economy and I could probably not afford to drive at all if it cost that kind of money.

Have you ever actually turned wrenches for a living?
If you have, than I think you would understand the cost involved.
Your comments don't reflect a true understanding of overhead cost.
There is a big difference in perspective between being employed and being the owner when it come to understanding the cost and challenges of running a shop.

[twodownzero]

valhalla360 wrote:

twodownzero wrote:

I do wear a suit and am a professional, and I used to teach the difference between revenue and profit to students. As such, I know that I could certainly make more than I make in a month if I could get two $3,000 jobs that took me 4 days to complete. Even if I could only do it at half the speed of book rate, I could work 8 days instead of 20 days a month and make the same money. That sounds like a pretty good deal to me!

Of course, if you are a shade tree type (no insurance, no history, no certifications, iffy warranty, etc...), customers are going to expect a big discount compared to a professional shop.

Yes you can make money turning wrenches on the side but it's not a get rich quick plan.

These kinds of responses seem to indicate that consumers think they're getting something other than what they're actually getting when they take their vehicles to a shop. Over 15 years ago, I was employed by a shop. We had regular customers, but much of our work was fixing things that other shops couldn't.

There is no guarantee that any business has insurance that will cover any consumer's expense. "History" is irrelevant if they've never worked on a car like yours or diagnosed the condition yours has. Warranty comes from the parts manufacturers; hardly any of them pay labor claims when their parts fail. Certifications are as worthless as the paper they're printed on--they are used primarily within corporate systems to get people raises.

Nobody's ever going to convince me that $3000 to replace an OHV V8 is a good price. That is robbery. I would quit my job tomorrow to work for that kind of money turning wrenches as a parts replacer, because that's what this job is. Replacing an engine requires no meaningful amount of skill or diagnosis. It's a remove and replace kind of job.

Reading threads like this makes me so happy that I never have to depend on another person to perform work like this. I am far from rich, but I make much more money than the median worker in our economy and I could probably not afford to drive at all if it cost that kind of money.

[valhalla360]

twodownzero wrote:

I do wear a suit and am a professional, and I used to teach the difference between revenue and profit to students. As such, I know that I could certainly make more than I make in a month if I could get two $3,000 jobs that took me 4 days to complete. Even if I could only do it at half the speed of book rate, I could work 8 days instead of 20 days a month and make the same money. That sounds like a pretty good deal to me!

Of course, if you are a shade tree type (no insurance, no history, no certifications, iffy warranty, etc...), customers are going to expect a big discount compared to a professional shop.

Yes you can make money turning wrenches on the side but it's not a get rich quick plan.

[rjstractor]

Fordlover wrote:

mkirsch wrote:
Good lord people! Do you expect the mechanic to work for free?

We have one poster quoting the long block from Jeg's for $3500. This estimate is INSTALLED for $6500. Doesn't seem that out of line to me.

I don't think it's too far out of line honestly. To be generous, I'd guess 12 hours to pull the old, 12 hours to install the new, so 3 grand across 24 hours is $125 hr shop rate. Wonder if that quote also includes the Tax?

No doubt some of that cost will go into consumables, oil, fluid, coolant, etc. as well.

I did a little research on it, GM book says around 17 hours to install a long block (includes swapping components from the removed engine) or 12 hours to R&R a complete assembly. 17 x $120/hour is $2040, plus the consumables you mention. Probably should replace belts and hoses as well, add shop fees and sales tax and you're right around $3K.

[deltabravo]

$6500 Sounds really high for a 5.3 replacement

[mich800]

twodownzero wrote:


I do wear a suit and am a professional, and I used to teach the difference between revenue and profit to students. As such, I know that I could certainly make more than I make in a month if I could get two $3,000 jobs that took me 4 days to complete. Even if I could only do it at half the speed of book rate, I could work 8 days instead of 20 days a month and make the same money. That sounds like a pretty good deal to me!

So where is this $3,000 coming from? Based the OP that gave zero specifics on the quote other than total cost. But everyone here seems to know not only the components that are included in the quote but also the shops costs on those components. Seems everyone is tossing around a lot of assumptions how this shop must be putting their kids through college on just this one job.

[twodownzero]

mkirsch wrote:
Also out of that $3000 comes any gaskets, hoses, cables, fluids, and other parts that should be replaced as a matter of course in a proper engine swap.

If you're doing it yourself you can take all the shortcuts and make the professional mechanic look like a crook. However if anything goes wrong due to those shortcuts, you've got nobody to blame but yourself. ANYTHING goes wrong with the professional job, you'll be blaming the mechanic for taking shortcuts...

A new engine has a warranty, sometimes even one that covers the labor if the engine fails. As long as you didn't get it hot or run it without oil, it'd be pretty hard to screw this up!

[twodownzero]

mich800 wrote:

twodownzero wrote:

Lantley wrote:

twodownzero wrote:

mkirsch wrote:
Good lord people! Do you expect the mechanic to work for free?

We have one poster quoting the long block from Jeg's for $3500. This estimate is INSTALLED for $6500. Doesn't seem that out of line to me.

If you will pay me $3,000 to install a plug in, bolt in engine, please line up and I will quit my day job.

Well you don't get to keep the entire $3,000.
You have to pay insurance,utility's,rent,disposal fees, licenses and permits and taxes.
You can keep what's left and hope everything went well and you don't have any call backs.

It takes me a whole month to make $3k, net. If you're telling me I could do two 16-17 hour engine swaps and make that in 4 days, I will hang up the suit forever and do that for the rest of my days.

If you wear a suit and presumably a professional, you surely understand the difference between revenue and profit. Not to mention only the OP has the quote to even see what is part of this swap.

I do wear a suit and am a professional, and I used to teach the difference between revenue and profit to students. As such, I know that I could certainly make more than I make in a month if I could get two $3,000 jobs that took me 4 days to complete. Even if I could only do it at half the speed of book rate, I could work 8 days instead of 20 days a month and make the same money. That sounds like a pretty good deal to me!