EV alternative for light/medium duty trucks

[thomas201]

So much wheel spinning on EVs, what if they are not the right path forward? The biggest problem with renewable power and EVs is storage, the second is storage, and the third is storage. Another path is carbon capture from the atmosphere (using amine scrubbing like nuclear subs and carbon dioxide from natural gas) then splitting hydrogen from water, followed by building whatever hydrocarbon you need.

The US Navy is hard at work on this project, since it avoids storage of large amounts of jet fuel, and the difficult job of resupply of jet fuel at sea to the carriers. After all fire kills ships. The Fords were built with a very large excess electric generation capacity for this reason and many others.

Porsche now has a pilot project running in South America, Porsche syn fuel

This will work wherever you have cheap electricity and water. The products are put right into refinery feeds. No need to rebuild the approximately 1.5 Billion cars in the world. Solves storage, no worry about hydrogen embrittlement, recycles carbon dioxide, we use the existing liquid fuel distribution system. Transparent to the car/truck owner.

[Latner]

RambleOnNW wrote:
An Exxon study done in 1982 focused on global warming by Increasing greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions. Remarkably, thirty-seven years ago Exxon accurately predicted that by 2019, the earth would hit a carbon dioxide concentration of 415 ppm and a temperature increase of almost 1°C (Figure 1).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ianpalmer/2023/01/17/a-fresh-reading-of-exxons-predictions-of-global-wa...

and yet Exxon just completed a $2B expansion to an oil refinery in Texas after being told by our leaders to increase production, even though said leaders want to shut down their industry. :h

[blt2ski]

Latner wrote:

wnjj wrote:

shelbyfv wrote:
LOL,thanks but I can't afford to live in the PNW! Interesting and sad that you think you are able guess my politics by my posts about climate change. Maybe ask yourself why one of our political parties became anti-science.:h

Perhaps because science is so institutionalized that it has become $cience and some people recognize that. Imagine a scientist having a differing opinion about something without consequences. Also, “science” has been completely wrong plenty of times.

I can remember back in the 70's being told we need to get ready for the next "ice age" :R

I prefer to look at science as an ever evolving changing learning experience.

When I was in college early 80's, there was only a plant and animal kingdom. Went to my youngest daughters science teacher student eval around 2005. Daughter mentioned 5 kingdoms....I did a double take. She mentioned the new three. Realized the three new ones, my teacher had mentioned splitting these groups out as more was known about them.
Same thing happened 5-8 years later, she was literally taking the same Art color class, same college, different teacher. Their is now 99 shades of gray between black and white. Only 9 when I took the class. Reality with computers, I'm sure there are more shades of gray.
Things change as we learn about things. It will depend upon many things as to how long it will take to make things work.
Hydrogen pipes as noted is one item that needs fixing before using this fuel becomes a reality. How long will this take.
US being a supplier of lithium for batteries. YES largest mine in worl "will be" in Nevada. No permits have been give out yet!
As many have also noted, they have learned some things via this post. Let's continue to do so.

Marty

[RambleOnNW]

An Exxon study done in 1982 focused on global warming by Increasing greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions. Remarkably, thirty-seven years ago Exxon accurately predicted that by 2019, the earth would hit a carbon dioxide concentration of 415 ppm and a temperature increase of almost 1°C (Figure 1).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ianpalmer/2023/01/17/a-fresh-reading-of-exxons-predictions-of-global-wa...

[Latner]

wnjj wrote:

shelbyfv wrote:
LOL,thanks but I can't afford to live in the PNW! Interesting and sad that you think you are able guess my politics by my posts about climate change. Maybe ask yourself why one of our political parties became anti-science.:h

Perhaps because science is so institutionalized that it has become $cience and some people recognize that. Imagine a scientist having a differing opinion about something without consequences. Also, “science” has been completely wrong plenty of times.

I can remember back in the 70's being told we need to get ready for the next "ice age" :R

[RambleOnNW]

In case you missed it Glickenhaus plans to field a hydrogen Boot truck in the Baja 1000. They challenged Musk to enter a CyberTruck but got crickets for a response.

https://www.autoblog.com/2022/01/19/scuderia-cameron-glickenhaus-hydrogen-boot-baja-1000-update/

[map40]

RambleOnNW wrote:
“ Another factor is the integrity of the steel pipes and fittings. Depending on the quality of the steel and potential exposure to atomic hydrogen, in principle, embrittlement can accelerate propagation of cracks, reducing the pipeline’s service life by 20 to 50 percent. This is only likely, though, if the pipeline already has fractures and is subjected to dynamic stresses due to fluctuating internal pressure while at the same time being exposed to atomic hydrogen. The confluence of all three factors seems unlikely, however: Under normal operating conditions, there should be little load alternation, and only molecular hydrogen (H2).”

https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/news/magazine/2020/repurposing-natural-gas-infrastructure-f...

Retrofit solutions for pipelines:

https://www.enbridge.com/stories/2022/may/enbridge-invests-in-smartpipe-pipeline-retrofit-enabling-c...

Thanks for sharing, they are quite interesting. I heard of the kits b4 but did not know they were using them

[map40]

stsmark wrote:
Not sure what NG pipelines are made of but there’s the issue of Hydrogen Embrittlement.
Per Wikipedia;
Hydrogen embrittlement (HE), also known as hydrogen-assisted cracking or hydrogen-induced cracking (HIC), is a reduction in the ductility of a metal due to absorbed hydrogen. Hydrogen atoms are small and can permeate solid metals. Once absorbed, hydrogen lowers the stress required for cracks in the metal to initiate and propagate, resulting in embrittlement. Hydrogen embrittlement occurs most notably in steels, as well as in iron, nickel, titanium, cobalt, and their alloys. Copper, aluminium, and stainless steels are less susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement.[1][2][3][4]

I did not know that. Thanks!

[MFL]

Hey Benny...welcome to the forum!

Lots of good info, and education! Only thing being left out in this thread, is political posts, as that is not allowed. 🙂

Jerry

[Benny37]

Metallurgy 101, soon to be followed by basic introduction to Nuclear or Quantum Physics I'm sure, and all sprouting from some RV board. ROFLMAO..............

[RambleOnNW]

“ Another factor is the integrity of the steel pipes and fittings. Depending on the quality of the steel and potential exposure to atomic hydrogen, in principle, embrittlement can accelerate propagation of cracks, reducing the pipeline’s service life by 20 to 50 percent. This is only likely, though, if the pipeline already has fractures and is subjected to dynamic stresses due to fluctuating internal pressure while at the same time being exposed to atomic hydrogen. The confluence of all three factors seems unlikely, however: Under normal operating conditions, there should be little load alternation, and only molecular hydrogen (H2).”

https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/news/magazine/2020/repurposing-natural-gas-infrastructure-f...

Retrofit solutions for pipelines:

https://www.enbridge.com/stories/2022/may/enbridge-invests-in-smartpipe-pipeline-retrofit-enabling-c...

[stsmark]

Not sure what NG pipelines are made of but there’s the issue of Hydrogen Embrittlement.
Per Wikipedia;
Hydrogen embrittlement (HE), also known as hydrogen-assisted cracking or hydrogen-induced cracking (HIC), is a reduction in the ductility of a metal due to absorbed hydrogen. Hydrogen atoms are small and can permeate solid metals. Once absorbed, hydrogen lowers the stress required for cracks in the metal to initiate and propagate, resulting in embrittlement. Hydrogen embrittlement occurs most notably in steels, as well as in iron, nickel, titanium, cobalt, and their alloys. Copper, aluminium, and stainless steels are less susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement.[1][2][3][4]

[wnjj]

shelbyfv wrote:
LOL,thanks but I can't afford to live in the PNW! Interesting and sad that you think you are able guess my politics by my posts about climate change. Maybe ask yourself why one of our political parties became anti-science.:h

Perhaps because science is so institutionalized that it has become $cience and some people recognize that. Imagine a scientist having a differing opinion about something without consequences. Also, “science” has been completely wrong plenty of times.

[time2roll]

shelbyfv wrote:
Actually I've been thinking it's time for me to go. I wouldn't have these conversations with folks like y'all in real life so why bother on the internet? I do wish I could send you some of our deranged politicos.:B

Don't post in a thread more than the OP and the issue goes away.

[ronharmless]

Oh my! Sorry to see you go

[shelbyfv]

Actually I've been thinking it's time for me to go. I wouldn't have these conversations with folks like y'all in real life so why bother on the internet? I do wish I could send you some of our deranged politicos.:B