Fuel additive recommendation by Cummins

[smokeylew]

A recent post on The Turbo Diesel Register mentioned that Cummins officially endorses Power Service Diesel Kleen and Diesel Fuel Supplement. I own a 2016 Ram 3500 Cummins Diesel with less than 20k on it. Never considered adding fuel supplements.

The post didn't make a case for using or not using fuel additives one way or the other. Although, there were some good points brought up about low sulfur content of diesel fuel and the added benefit of increased turbo lubricity when using the additive.

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this subject and if you diesel guys recommend using a fuel additive like PS Diesel Kleen + Cetane Boost as endorsed by Cummins?

Thanking you in advance for you posts, Smokeylew

[Charlie_D_]

Speaking of condensation. Does anyone know if the new "plastic" fuel tanks cause as much, if any condensation versus the steel tanks formerly used on vehicles?

[Likes_to_tow]

When I bought my 05 Ram Cummins in 07 it had 20k on the odometer. It almost immediately started to randomly have a rough idle at start up. For instance if I would stop at a rest area on the interstate when I refired the engine it would act like a cylinder or two was not functioning properly for about 30 to 50 seconds then it would smooth out. I took it to the dealer and they replaced two injectors. When I jumped in to take it home it did it again!!! The mechanic said it was quit time, bring it in tomorrow or schedule another appointment. I decided to research the problem on the Internet first. A few days later I stopped at Wal Mart for a few things and while I was walking through the auto dept. I noticed Power Service products. Since Wally World does not keep things on the shelf that do not move I guessed this was a good seller....big demand?? I bought a quart, gave a fresh fill up a heavy dose and never, not once, have I experience this problem again. That was 80K miles ago and I use Diesel Kleen every fill up since then.

[TakingThe5th]

path1 wrote:
We spent time with a retired Cummins engineer. Good guy with tons of good stories. His theory ..... OEMS's stretch maintenance schedules for as long as they can for sales reasons. (And bean counters always win, but really have no idea about the mechanics of a product and only think about cost of ownership compared to other OEM's) And consumers have no idea how long something has sat around or what conditions fluids or filters were stored in.

His advice...follow maintenance schedule but back up 10 percent. Example...if something is due at 10,000 miles to it at 9,000 (10,000 minus 10 percent) He loved fleetguard filters and Cummins anti-freeze but other fluids he said Ford fluids were as good as Cummins and more available on the road. The extras he did was...oil analysis (I forget how often) and he did an alternator "ripple" test every oil change. He packed elec connections with die-elec grease every couple years. He had a binder set up by component with the standard requirement and in front of binder he had a chart of when everything was due to his minus 10 percent method.

He showed me how to do the alt "ripple" test with volt meter. Which I now do. I really don't know if newer stuff needs it or not but my old one does. Pretty interesting these electronic machines on wheels:)

Several years ago I had several discussions with a Navstar engineer which revolved around my Ford/Navstar 6.0. As a result I now use Archoil for injector "Sticktion", and a cetane booster because cetane ratings aren't commonly shown at the pump so you don't know if you are meeting the manufacture's minimum requirement and, for the 6.0 anyway, that is important. I also use a cold weather additive in the winter.

[mowermech]

"I have a 1000 gallon diesel bulk storage tank on the farm..."

Impressive. 1000 gallons.
The air tanker company tasked with airport operations I used to work for had a 100LL Avgas tank, and a Jet A tank that each held in excess of 5000 gallons. There was little or no water in either tank, and no algae in the jet fuel. All fuel was tested regularly, of course, as required by the FAA. Aircraft fuel tanks were checked at the low point drains before every flight. Very seldom was any water found.
As a licensed A&P mechanic, I have had a great deal of training in the use, storage, and testing of fuels, as well as the use of several different kinds of FAA certified jet fuel additives (Prist was the most common).
Yeah, you might say I been there, did that!
I have never had an algae problem in one of my diesel pickups. Nor have I ever had a "bad fuel" problem.
Just incredibly lucky, I guess.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

ShinerBock wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
I'm super glad my engine maker does not require or even recommend a fuel additive. In fact, they recommend only using clean #2 diesel fuel so that's all I have used for 11 years.

It seams that GM may want to take a second look into that....

Bad advice in Duramax Manual

However, it seems from this bulletin that they take the same stance as Cummins in that they are not recommended in normal operation, but if the available fuel is not up to spec or for the current temp then they can be used and even have AC Delco additives in the bullitin.

03-06-04-017L: Information On Diesel Fuel Additives – 2018 And Prior GM Chevrolet And GMC Light Duty...

Na, I don't vacation, live or visit anywhere where my fuel turns into a solid or even a slush. Not my gig. Not so much for my fuel but for me. 😉

[mowermech]

http://hildstrom.com/projects/seafoam/

Mix your own.

[SidecarFlip]

mowermech wrote:
Yes, I know what "cide" means. I deal with herbicides, biocides, and other types of "cides" on a regular basis. Farmers are not the only people in the world who know about such thing, y'know!
From my reading, I have come to understand one thing about algae growth in diesel fuel: No water in the fuel, no algae will grow.
The algae grows only at the water/fuel interface.
I check my water/fuel separator and fuel filter frequently. No water, no "red algae", so no problem, no need for a biocide.
Again, find and READ the MSDS for the products you buy. It can be very enlightening!

So tell us, what about the fuel in your tank pre seperator. pre filter?

You fill your tank at say 60 degrees from a filling station, Park the truck and the temp drops to say 30. You have an immediate dew point issue and the inside of the tank (above the fuel level) sweats and don't tell me you fill it entirely full because you cannot, physically impossible.

You make internal condesation in the tank (also know as water) and... underground storage tanks (at fuel stops and filling stations also sweat internally so you could be pulling water when you fuel as well.

I have a 1000 gallon diesel bulk storage tank on the farm and at least every 6 months I drain off the accumulated water and it matters little if the tank is clear full (I can fill it to no air space because it's top fill and round) or 1/2 full, it always makes some water.

Your premise don't hold 'water' with me, but when you grow the red stinky, slimy stuff, you'll be in for a real treat. I know, been there, done that and paid the price. I use a biocide regularly, in my truck and in my bulk tank as well.


Not going to spar with you on it, don't really care actually. It's your ship and you Captain it but when your ship engine gunks up, you can deal with it and it ain't a cheap date.

[mowermech]

Yes, I know what "cide" means. I deal with herbicides, biocides, and other types of "cides" on a regular basis. Farmers are not the only people in the world who know about such things, y'know!
From my reading, I have come to understand one thing about algae growth in diesel fuel: No water in the fuel, no algae will grow.
The algae grows only at the water/fuel interface.
I check my water/fuel separator and fuel filter frequently. No water, no "red algae", so no problem, no need for a biocide.
Locally, we have winter blend fuel at this time of year, so there is very little use for an anti-gel additive.
My previous diesel truck (1994 Dodge 3500) had 275K on the odometer when I got rid of it. No additives were used while I had it, except once when due to lack of use it sat with summer fuel in it during a sudden cold spell. I added an anti-gel to get it going until I could fill it with winter fuel.
IF I decide to use any additive in the fuel in my present truck, I will make my own. Naphtha, diesel fuel, and isopropyl alcohol in the proper ratio, and I have a match for one of the most popular additives at considerably less cost per ounce.
Again, find and READ the MSDS for the products you buy. It can be very enlightening!

[ShinerBock]

path1 wrote:


You did notice... I'm using the word percentage and not miles, right?

I'll stick with doing all my maintenance 10 percent early. Oil sent in to be checked about once a year for me.

I am not concerned with what you prefer to do. I am just saying that I disagree with the "10% rule" that this Cummins engineer told you and that you are recommending based on actual oil analysis data.

Also, 10% from 15k miles is 13.5k miles, If there is no significant difference or from 10k to 15k miles like I stated earlier, then why would there be from 13.5k to 15k?

path1 wrote:
(side note) being you see oil testing results...seeing any results in the new oil spec yet? Spec "K" or whatever they are naming it.

There may be some, but the customers do not specify which standard the oil being tested is whether it is CJ-4, CK-4 or FA-4. Many times they just put the brand and grade of the oil being tested. We only test oil contamination, dilution, and flash point.

[ShinerBock]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
I'm super glad my engine maker does not require or even recommend a fuel additive. In fact, they recommend only using clean #2 diesel fuel so that's all I have used for 11 years.

It seams that GM may want to take a second look into that....

Bad advice in Duramax Manual

However, it seems from this bulletin that they take the same stance as Cummins in that they are not recommended in normal operation, but if the available fuel is not up to spec or for the current temp then they can be used and even have AC Delco additives in the bullitin.

03-06-04-017L: Information On Diesel Fuel Additives – 2018 And Prior GM Chevrolet And GMC Light Duty...

[SidecarFlip]

mowermech wrote:
For those who wish to use additives, do a google search for "home-brew diesel fuel additive". Since there are only three components in the most pop0ular additive (according to the MSDS), it is quite easy to mix your own for less than $10 per gallon!
Look up the MSDS for your favorite additive. Find out exactly what is in the stuff. I looked up a highly recommended biocide recently. I won't have a bottle of that stuff on the property! It is worse than Roundup weed killer!

It has to be read the word 'cide'. It's a herbicide, plain and simple and once you grow red algae in your fuel and pay the piper for your lack of understanding about how algae grows and what you have to treat it with.

On another tread I alluded to what it cost me and I did the mechanical work myself and the parts alone was over a grand.

I use Roundup-Ultra, Crossbow and 2-4-D all the time, I farm and every farmer I know does so you get to eat the treated crops when you go to the supermarket for groceries.. But I guess ignorance is bliss...

Some comments on this site just amaze me and I don't usually reply but in this case I am subscribed to this thread. so I did.

[Durb]

I use fuel additive. When I do my truck starts faster, idles smoother, runs quieter and has better performance. Dispute it if you wish.

I splash and fill my transmission fluid more often than required. When I do it shifts smoother and runs cooler.

I change my oil and filter more frequently than recommended. My money my choice.

I'm sure the next owner of the truck will thank me.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

I'm super glad my engine maker does not require or even recommend a fuel additive. In fact, they recommend only using clean #2 diesel fuel so that's all I have used for 11 years.

[FishOnOne]

memtb,
You may want to check to see if that Wal Mart 2 cycle oil has any metal anti wear additives. The metal anti wear additives may not be good for your HPFP and injectors.

I would stick to a diesel fuel additive that's designed for todays expensive common rail fuel system.