General thoughts on Hybrids

[K3WE]

SLIGHTLY off topic as I'm asking more about T(oad)Vs rather than T(ow)Vs.

BUT, this is the motorhead sub-forum - engines and drive trains and MPGs and all that fun stuff.

What do "we" think about hybrids these days?

The reason I ask is the DW was car shopping and was told that "hybrids only cost $800 more than equivalents with engines".

And hinted that this was the future for smaller cars and that this would have service and resale benefits.

The gas mileage is certainly tempting- and MAYBE electric motors and generators can be more reliable that gears and drive trains.

But, I was thinking after 4 years, you better be ready for a SERIOUS battery replacement bill?

Always look forward to discussions. (that's the objective)

[Groover]

"You can tap genitally with a big hammer"

That sounds painful!

[JRscooby]

Lantley wrote:

Dually is not my only vehicle but it is my daily driver.
However if I did not have a 5'er I would not have a dually.
I own a dually to cover my most extreme usage.
It doesn't make sense to me to own a lesser truck that doesn't meet my most extreme need.
Should sweat it out and have a less than enjoyable experience with a SRW truck or have a relaxing tow with the more capable truck.

Yes. The tool box I carry with me only has one hammer, and it's a big one. You can tap genitally with a big hammer, but you can't hit hard with a little one. OTOH, if at home, or near the dedicated tool truck, I would pick the best size for the job. (No longer have the tool truck, so when home I'm knee-deep in hammers) When picking the hammer/shopping for the vehicle, you don't want all big hammers.

[Jennifer_Koper]

If you're stupid sufficient to drive around without looking at the fuel gauge, I suggest you almost certainly shouldn't drive a petrol car either.
And the heater should run off the 12V series, so no cause why it wouldn't work.

[Lantley]

JRscooby wrote:

Lantley wrote:

They base their decision on normal or every day usage, however when it comes to safety and reliability heavy usage should be the determining factor.
Now heavy usage may not be as important in choosing a hybrid or EV however when choosing a tow vehicle, heavy usage is critical.
Maybe that's why we both have duallies:)

Is the dually your only vehicle? Most families have more than 1. If we are going out of town, we take the pickup. If wife is going out of town, I'm stuck with the car. I wish 15 years ago I had bought E with a 50 mile range that could charge at home instead of ICE.

Dually is not my only vehicle but it is my daily driver.
However if I did not have a 5'er I would not have a dually.
I own a dually to cover my most extreme usage.
It doesn't make sense to me to own a lesser truck that doesn't meet my most extreme need.
Should sweat it out and have a less than enjoyable experience with a SRW truck or have a relaxing tow with the more capable truck.

[JRscooby]

Lantley wrote:

They base their decision on normal or every day usage, however when it comes to safety and reliability heavy usage should be the determining factor.
Now heavy usage may not be as important in choosing a hybrid or EV however when choosing a tow vehicle, heavy usage is critical.
Maybe that's why we both have duallies:)

Is the dually your only vehicle? Most families have more than 1. If we are going out of town, we take the pickup. If wife is going out of town, I'm stuck with the car. I wish 15 years ago I had bought E with a 50 mile range that could charge at home instead of ICE.

[Lantley]

DutchmenSport wrote:
I think it all depends upon your personal life style. I could never use successfully. I tow a behemoth 5er, and the distance from home to work is ... well ... not practical from an electric car.

Others may have great success. Just like anything in life, you have to figure out if it will work for you. Do all the logistics and see where it leads. What is the most AGGRESSIVE most ROBUST demand you will put on your vehicle (NOT THE LIGHTEST, DAILY USE) ... and then find out if electric power can handle it, that is, the greatest demand you would EVER need from it, even if that need is for a very short duration. Then you have your answer.

I am late to this thread. But you bring up a good point.
What is the most intense usage required? Many don't ask that question.
They base their decision on normal or every day usage, however when it comes to safety and reliability heavy usage should be the determining factor.
Now heavy usage may not be as important in choosing a hybrid or EV however when choosing a tow vehicle, heavy usage is critical.
Maybe that's why we both have duallies:)

[Reisender]

free radical wrote:

Reisender wrote:
Hybrid sales are starting to wane somewhat and have already been eclipsed by BEV’s. The Volt was cancelled this year and Prius sales are half of what they were 10 years ago. Most manufacturers are putting there R and D into full electric. There will probably be some Hybrid market in North America for awhile yet or at least until charge infrastructure catches up to the rest of the world. In the meantime, a Prius plug in hybrid is a good choice....but not towable.

Until all manufacturers have supercharger network like Tesla has,
then hybrids are way better imo.

Via motors can do it why not GM
https://youtu.be/4XHbQLfgI6g

Meh. If you do that kind of travelling a lot there is probably some advantage. Kinda depends on your region infrastructure too. A hybrid would hold no advantage for us. We rarely go further than 500 or 600 km....unless we are in the Motorhome or on a plane. A hybrid is just more to maintain. Might work for some though. The volt was a neat idea. Just never caught on.

[free_radical]

Reisender wrote:
Hybrid sales are starting to wane somewhat and have already been eclipsed by BEV’s. The Volt was cancelled this year and Prius sales are half of what they were 10 years ago. Most manufacturers are putting there R and D into full electric. There will probably be some Hybrid market in North America for awhile yet or at least until charge infrastructure catches up to the rest of the world. In the meantime, a Prius plug in hybrid is a good choice....but not towable.

Until all manufacturers have supercharger network like Tesla has,
then hybrids are way better imo.

Via motors can do it why not GM
https://youtu.be/4XHbQLfgI6g

[colliehauler]

Bedlam wrote:
I think some type of hybrid will be a round for a while:

To funny. Was thinking of California's big push to eliminate natural gas and gasoline to go all electric vehicles. Especially with their failing power grid. This weekend 3 million people could be without power. Kind of reminds me of the old saying (Don't put all your eggs in one basket).

[Reisender]

wilber1 wrote:
One advantage to having an EV as a towd, it could be recharging itself as it was being towed.

Yes that would be nice. But currently none allow it. We tow an EV as a toad but on a trailer.

[wilber1]

One advantage to having an EV as a towd, it could be recharging itself as it was being towed.

[JRscooby]

valhalla360 wrote:


But if the MH slams on the brakes and the Toad gets electronically confused and applies full power...

I would think this would be more likely with a human driver, not a self driving car.

PS: Yes, I'm quite familiar with barge towing having spent time on our boat running the river systems and the Intercoastal Waterway. I have seen tugs pulling a string of barges. If you are referring to "tows", those are custom "tow boats" designed to operate from the rear. Once hooked up, they a really are a single entity far more so than any on road towing system. And this supports my point that a custom design Toad that pushes is not the same as dragging a standard Toad.

My experience with barges is limited, but when I asked the captain why he would unhook from the front, move his boat to the other end before he would take the load out into the river he said with the load behind him, if he needed to stop, backing into the front of the barge would likely cause the barge to ride up on his boat. I asked why he didn't just back his boat in so the barge was up to ramp? Would prefer to keep back of boat in deeper water.
(I wanted them to switch tows faster, I hated to set there under a pile of rocks waiting for them to get a barge in place for me to back on and unload.)
Another discussion about how many angels can dance on head of pin, but still fun. Custom design toad? From what I understand a lot of changes need to made for brakes and lighting to tow any vehicle 4 down. And a limited number of ICE powered vehicles can be used without mods to prevent damage to transmission. A electric vehicle needs no disconnect wheel/motor because electric does not idle. And because the power band for E starts at 0 rpm, no need to change gear ratios. And if you tried to spin ICE you must overcome the friction, plus the compression, moving the air. Driving a E motor, some friction, (Fewer moving parts, none of which speed, stop, reverse, repeat every revolution) so less friction. It will generate electricity, but if the circuit is open is there a load from that?
From what I see, the only change in a E vehicle drive train need to tow 4 down would be open the circuit, and make sure a parking brake was released.
And while the angels are dancing, how far downhill can any car coast in drive at highway speed without damage? Next question. If the car could coast all day without issue, would the car know that a MH is forcing it to move instead of a downgrade? In other words could prep to tow be instead of removing fuses and whatever be hook up brake system, start, put in drive? And if the engine is running in drive, could the reactive cruse control be programmed to keep a much shorter distance behind one vehicle? Steering would be controlled by towbar. Brakes the normal system.

[valhalla360]

JRscooby wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

As far as pushing the MH...there's a reason for the saying...don't put the cart before the horse. Especially given the tiny percentage of cars to be sold that would utilize this feature, it's just not worth the trouble.

I don't think the toad would ever be expected to supply all the power needed to move the MH. But do you ever see a tug boat pulling a string of barges? And in some parts of the country a long coal train will have a engine at the end of train pushing, and sometimes another with cars in front and behind.
And you are right about the small percentage of cars sold. But as more people start to use E-cars for daily transportation and also want to use their car for toad, then somebody might want to test the ability to tow one 4 down. Once it is a toad, the rest of the changes would be a piece of chicken.

But if the MH slams on the brakes and the Toad gets electronically confused and applies full power...

PS: Yes, I'm quite familiar with barge towing having spent time on our boat running the river systems and the Intercoastal Waterway. I have seen tugs pulling a string of barges. If you are referring to "tows", those are custom "tow boats" designed to operate from the rear. Once hooked up, they a really are a single entity far more so than any on road towing system. And this supports my point that a custom design Toad that pushes is not the same as dragging a standard Toad.

[Bedlam]

I think some type of hybrid will be a round for a while: