GM and Gearing

[jffnkrn]

Looking at maybe an upgrade to GMC 2500 HD, just curious if anyone has the 342 gearing and what they think. It would be with gas. your experience if you please. I have a comparison of the 3:73 and 4:10.
thanks

[Grit_dog]

^ It's emotions. On one hand noone "wants" old smoke blowing stinky diesels and in the same breath condemns the newer ones.
Noone is saying that there is zero extra maint or repair potential with the emissions systems, but like the SVO story and so many others, old habits die hard. And the older a person is, the harder they die.

Now get off my lawn!!

[ShinerBock]

mkirsch wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:
New systems that will likely come out in the next 10 years will be dual DEF systems which will hopefully eliminate the need for the EGR altogether or at least reduce how often the engine utilizes it dramatically.

That doesn't help what's out there now, which is unreliable beyond what's reasonable. Farmers and truckers avoid the new engines because they leave them sitting on the side of the road too often to risk.

I would have to disagree on the farmers and truckers thing since I have worked in the medium/heavy duty transportation industry for over 2 decades and live in a rural farming community with a small 300 acre family farm/ranch a few towns over. You will see mostly 2010 and up trucks around here and most are diesels. Most heavy duty trucks are 2010 and up as well according to Polk registration data. So I am not sure if this assessment you have is based on emotions are data, but the data I am looking at and have access to says otherwise.

Also, the data from our 500+ truck fleet will disagree with on how unreliable the new diesels are versus the gassers in our fleet. NOx or O2 sensor and other emissions issues is common problems with both. The amount of total engine down time associated with both is about the same as well. However, with the gassers it is more often at shorter periods while the diesel is less often at longer periods.

[mkirsch]

ShinerBock wrote:
New systems that will likely come out in the next 10 years will be dual DEF systems which will hopefully eliminate the need for the EGR altogether or at least reduce how often the engine utilizes it dramatically.

That doesn't help what's out there now, which is unreliable beyond what's reasonable. Farmers and truckers avoid the new engines because they leave them sitting on the side of the road too often to risk.

[ShinerBock]

dodge guy wrote:


I could’ve bought a diesel when I bought my X, but I came across a good deal on my V-10. Glad I never got stuck with a 6.0. No one else made a diesel SUV at the time. And with some of the issues I have seen with all the newer diesels with Def....again, no thanks. It’s choice made upon facts! Even when the tome comes for a DP I would like one without DEF, but buy then all the used ones I’ll be looking at will have DEF. So I won’t have much of a choice.

The DEF system is not the issue, the EGR reintroducing exhaust gases back into the intake is. This is where most of the sensor and soot issues come from. The DEF system takes care of emissions after the DPF filter so it has no effect on the engine's efficiency or performance other than the fact that it allows the engine to run a peak.

The EGR on the other hand will open anytime combustion temps get past 2,800F(which is the temp that NOx is created) and the DEF catalyst is not hot enough to take care of these emissions. It reintroduces cooled exhaust gas back into the chamber to cool these temps down which creates soot. It also reduces power since most of the oxygen in this air is already gone which effects efficiency as well. Once the DEF catalyst is hot enough(about 10 min), the EGR valve generally does not activate unless you are in in certain load citations where the DEF system cannot take care of all of the NOx.

New systems that will likely come out in the next 10 years will be dual DEF systems which will hopefully eliminate the need for the EGR altogether or at least reduce how often the engine utilizes it dramatically.

Although, this kind of reminds me of my cousin who bought an SVO Mustang back in the day. Everyone ragged him for not getting a V8 which was understandable for him since he was young at the time and it was more expensive. However, overtime this lead him to have "sour grapes syndrome" and a deep hatred for the old 5.0L to this day. If you even mention a 5.0L fox body Mustang, it will trigger him into a a tirade of how you don't need that much power or how bad @$$ his 4 banger Mustang was and how crappy the 5.0L is. I do find it comical sometimes and will poke the bear every now and then just for laughs.

[Grit_dog]

MFL wrote:


Jeez-us Grit...where did your sense of humor go? You are getting a bit cranky, as you approach retirement age. Hard to believe, I've been enjoying your posts since 2013 when you were just 53???:E

Jerry

:B LOL!
Approaching retirement age? ROFLMAO. That is a wish but not sure of the reality! You're a funny guy on the age comment though. I will be 53 in a half dozen years.
Sense of humor is alive and well. But that post wasn't tongue in cheek. That was merely in response to dg's overtly pessimistic take on diesels. (And then to bring up the 6.0no as a justification for his opinion, while admitting to be a diesel tech...ROFLMAO again!)

Hey dg....2008 called and they want their diesels back!

[MFL]

Grit dog wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
I am not a diesel person. And I had a TT that some would never tow with a gas motor. I like not having to worry if my truck will make it to the destination. Don't need to be stuck on the side of the road.
I'll take a gasser and a few less MPG's knowing I'll make it without issues.

And yes, BTW, I'm a diesel tech. The only time I'll have a diesel is when we buy a DP.

Then you’re either a paranoid or covering up for your lack of budget with statements like the above.
Btw you don’t seem old enough to be this dramatic like the old farts here on geezernet......

Jeez-us Grit...where did your sense of humor go? You are getting a bit cranky, as you approach retirement age. Hard to believe, I've been enjoying your posts since 2013 when you were just 53???:E

Jerry

[dodge_guy]

Grit dog wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
I am not a diesel person. And I had a TT that some would never tow with a gas motor. I like not having to worry if my truck will make it to the destination. Don't need to be stuck on the side of the road.
I'll take a gasser and a few less MPG's knowing I'll make it without issues.

And yes, BTW, I'm a diesel tech. The only time I'll have a diesel is when we buy a DP.

Then you’re either a paranoid or covering up for your lack of budget with statements like the above.
Btw you don’t seem old enough to be this dramatic like the old farts here on geezernet......

I could’ve bought a diesel when I bought my X, but I came across a good deal on my V-10. Glad I never got stuck with a 6.0. No one else made a diesel SUV at the time. And with some of the issues I have seen with all the newer diesels with Def....again, no thanks. It’s choice made upon facts! Even when the tome comes for a DP I would like one without DEF, but buy then all the used ones I’ll be looking at will have DEF. So I won’t have much of a choice.

[Grit_dog]

dodge guy wrote:
I am not a diesel person. And I had a TT that some would never tow with a gas motor. I like not having to worry if my truck will make it to the destination. Don't need to be stuck on the side of the road.
I'll take a gasser and a few less MPG's knowing I'll make it without issues.

And yes, BTW, I'm a diesel tech. The only time I'll have a diesel is when we buy a DP.

Then you’re either a paranoid or covering up for your lack of budget with statements like the above.
Btw you don’t seem old enough to be this dramatic like the old farts here on geezernet......;)

[dodge_guy]

I am not a diesel person. And I had a TT that some would never tow with a gas motor. I like not having to worry if my truck will make it to the destination. Don't need to be stuck on the side of the road.
I'll take a gasser and a few less MPG's knowing I'll make it without issues.

And yes, BTW, I'm a diesel tech. The only time I'll have a diesel is when we buy a DP.

[Grit_dog]

Or you could bolt 150hp to your current truck. Pump gas supercharger.
Blow away all the new gassers for less $ than a new truck!

[Grit_dog]

jffnkrn wrote:


Well, I guess I asked for it! my head is on my shoulders and not where some may think. No I am not Gear Savvy, so that is why I asked the question(s). I appreciated the knowledge and the input, I can afford the extra few dollars for gas, I am not a diesel person and so there ya have it. Thanks again for the input. I will do some further research before I buy the next truck. I am looking forward to it. Have a great rest of your day!!! Thanks again.

Now that understanding final drive ratios is under your belt, in that what you need to know is that pulling the weight you’re pulling with a gas pickup, the deeper the gears the better.
Also the more hp and more trans gears the better.
Understand, if you don’t want the cost or complication of a diesel. Whether real or perceived, there are differences.
2 things.
1. You appear to be “ok” pulling what you’re pulling with your current truck, which I’m quite familiar with it’s performance. And it’ll get your trailer up a hill, as you know.
2. You also appear to have the means to get whatever vehicle you wish to, and whether or not you think so, if you experienced a better towing experience, I’ll bet you’d like it.

That’s where the diesel recommendation comes in. However if you don’t want one, it’s your $.
Like you said, you can spend extra $ on gasoline, so sure as heck don’t skimp on the gasser you get.
GM is suckin hind teat right now. And the new 6.6 doesn’t match up to the competition... yet, with only a 6 speed imo.
At a min, I’d be looking at a 6.4 Ram. 4.10s and the 8HP trans is proven and a great performer.
But the best gasser numbers are coming out of the new 7.3 Ford. 10 speeds and I believe you can get 4.30 gears.
Very noticeable improvement over your current rig.

Good luck in your search!

[Huntindog]

jffnkrn wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

jffnkrn wrote:
I guess for me i would rather be in the middle somewhere, as stated earlier, i do tow about 8 to 10 thousand miles per year out of the 12 to 15 that we use the truck for. just thinking that I don't mind the chugging along on the hills a bit as we are not pulling hills all the time. that is about the biggest advantage i have seen with the 4:10 over the 3:73. well, to all, thanks and any other comments will be appreciated

So you have basically a new 2500HD with 4.10s. You tow a big trailer a lot of miles a year out west at altitude and big grades. You’re contemplating a few more hp, same number of gears and then saddling it with horrible gears for towing (which they don’t make so you’d have to change gear sets in a brand new truck), all for worse performance and worse mileage than you already have??

My comment is you’re not going to do appreciably better with ANY new gasser for your use and your propose plan is actually worse than your current vehicle.
You are solidly in the realm of making good use of a diesel. Or at a minimum get a new Ford or Ram with a better trans, more power and deeper gears.

I’m actually curious where your head is at. Think you’re going to save $ on gas for the few miles a year you drive bobtail, or just don’t understand the concept of gearing?

Well, I guess I asked for it! my head is on my shoulders and not where some may think. No I am not Gear Savvy, so that is why I asked the question(s). I appreciated the knowledge and the input, I can afford the extra few dollars for gas, I am not a diesel person and so there ya have it. Thanks again for the input. I will do some further research before I buy the next truck. I am looking forward to it. Have a great rest of your day!!! Thanks again.

What makes one a "Diesel person"?

My wife and her side of the family once thought that they would never drive diesels.... Over the years as diesels changed, they became converts.

Perhaps you should reconsider with an open mind.

You presently are at the upper limits of what gas motors can do.

A diesel is the only option to get appreciably better performance. IOW, it really isn't worth spending the money for a new gas powered truck, hoping/expecting better performance or fuel economy.... Now if you just want a new truck for the smell etc... That is a different story.

[jffnkrn]

Grit dog wrote:

jffnkrn wrote:
I guess for me i would rather be in the middle somewhere, as stated earlier, i do tow about 8 to 10 thousand miles per year out of the 12 to 15 that we use the truck for. just thinking that I don't mind the chugging along on the hills a bit as we are not pulling hills all the time. that is about the biggest advantage i have seen with the 4:10 over the 3:73. well, to all, thanks and any other comments will be appreciated

So you have basically a new 2500HD with 4.10s. You tow a big trailer a lot of miles a year out west at altitude and big grades. You’re contemplating a few more hp, same number of gears and then saddling it with horrible gears for towing (which they don’t make so you’d have to change gear sets in a brand new truck), all for worse performance and worse mileage than you already have??

My comment is you’re not going to do appreciably better with ANY new gasser for your use and your propose plan is actually worse than your current vehicle.
You are solidly in the realm of making good use of a diesel. Or at a minimum get a new Ford or Ram with a better trans, more power and deeper gears.

I’m actually curious where your head is at. Think you’re going to save $ on gas for the few miles a year you drive bobtail, or just don’t understand the concept of gearing?

Well, I guess I asked for it! my head is on my shoulders and not where some may think. No I am not Gear Savvy, so that is why I asked the question(s). I appreciated the knowledge and the input, I can afford the extra few dollars for gas, I am not a diesel person and so there ya have it. Thanks again for the input. I will do some further research before I buy the next truck. I am looking forward to it. Have a great rest of your day!!! Thanks again.

[Grit_dog]

I’ve pulled low profile trailers the same weight or less with same trucks as your current rig and even at low altitude they are turds pulling any decent grade.
I wouldn’t subject myself to the abuse and frustration with my personal rig provided I had the financial means to have enough power to pull a trailer with authority rather than wringing the truck out for all it’s worth.