GM Recall, Stop driving it

[45Ricochet]

Just a heads up

[mtofell1]

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
so it is not a huge jump to think you are talking about American workers.

Yes, actually it is. I did not say American and made no indication of that. My post had absolutely nothing to do with American or foreign. I honestly have no idea where GMs or Fords are manufactured. The only reason I know Rams are made in Mexico is because a couple outspoken members post it daily. Anyone reading the post can clearly see there was nothing written or inferred against American workers. Come on - there are plenty of things written on the forum to fight about. Do we really need to start making stuff up?

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

mtofell1 wrote:

Wow guys... lighten up! Where was I bashing American workers? Everyone in this contentious forum is constantly barking about all the vehicles being made in Mexico.

And you are correct - I know nothing about welding or manufacturing. I was pretty much conceding that with my obviously ridiculous "welding glue" comment.

Everyone's panties are 99% bunched before they even open a thread here. It's no wonder this forum is just a big fighting pit.

Well you said "Being a business owner I always wonder what happened leading up to this - did they catch some rogue employee purposely not welding something? Did they get a bad batch of welding "glue?" How did they first learn of the problem? Maybe a truck just fell apart as it rolled off the assembly line? " so it is not a huge jump to think you are talking about American workers.

They build these vehicles here in the states so unless you are saying you knew these parts were made in Mexico then it sure likes like you were talking about American works. If not than I will apologize, only you know for sure.

Don

[mich800]

camping man wrote:
Just think the money they saved sourcing the cheapest bidder?

Unfortunately that is not how it works in the automotive industry. And GM was a huge problem that put multiple suppliers out of business before the *#&* hit the fan. I was involved with multiple suppliers trying to keep them alive in the midwest during this pre collapse phase.

For those involved; know exactly how the OEMs crushed the liquidity of their suppliers that ultimately led them down the path of BK.

[camping_man]

Just think the money they saved sourcing the cheapest bidder?

[fla-gypsy]

Hopefully no one will be injured because of it.

[BenK]

Cutting corners is my guess...bottom line management types...

Take the steering wheel air bag issue with Takata...they went from the
engineering chosen explosive, tetrazole, to amn unbelievably cheaper
explosive, ammonium nitrate...which is unstable over time (temp &
humidity) degrades to both be too fast a burn and easily set off

As Don said, high volume welded stuff is no longer done by humans, but
robots. Another example is the POS GM receiver of the GMT800/900 era

Can guess so many contributing things...like the supplier of the raw
steel/cast/etc, the machining, the tempering, alloy, etc all has to be
within a spec range. Then the storage and handling up to the welding.

Then the welding itself, which also has it's spec range (temp of the
parts, ambient temp, humidity, etc, etc) All spelled out in the QA spec

Again, Don is spot on...where was QC ? They are involved in some
fashion, as it was found...reported and a decision to 'stop ship' and
recall

The world is a global economy and current cheapest manufacturing is
no longer China nor India...but Africa. Stuff is going to go downhill
as Africa comes on line with ever bigger/complex/etc parts shipped to
the world OEMs

Searched...and no real data as to what exactly is wrong, yet...

[Jarlaxle]

GM should be REQUIRED to either provide a loaner vehicle (theirs or a rental) until the truck is repaired, or to buy back the truck at full selling price.

[shepstone]

mtofell1 wrote:

Hannibal wrote:

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:

mtofell1 wrote:
Being a business owner I always wonder what happened leading up to this - did they catch some rogue employee purposely not welding something? Did they get a bad batch of welding "glue?" How did they first learn of the problem? Maybe a truck just fell apart as it rolled off the assembly line?

And the brand bashers really make me laugh - a disgruntled employee could pee in the milkshake machine at McDonalds just as easy as Burger King.

As an "employee" with 30 years in manufacturing I would think it was more likely management wanting to push more product out the door with less people and no PM work on their machines.

Those upper control arms a welded by a machine or robot not a person. Also where was the QC department? This should have be caught at the plant LONG before the parts ever got built onto any vehicles! All welded components MUST have at least one part per shift cut apart, sectioned and the welds examined. Either under a microscope or x-rayed.

All of our welds are checked each shift and it used to be that production was held up until the lab gave the OK to run. Now they drop off the parts and keep running, if a issue is found ALL parts are quarantined and a QC Engineer makes the determination as to if the parts can be reworked or scarped. At one time we had over 50 workers in the lab, now we have less then 20.

Sad that you feel this way about American workers. I do love this part, "Did they get a bad batch of welding "glue?"", obviously you know nothing about welding and or manufacturing. Maybe you should keep to been making "mike shakes and hamburgers" or whatever it is you do.

Don

Well said Don!

Wow guys... lighten up! Where was I bashing American workers? Everyone in this contentious forum is constantly barking about all the vehicles being made in Mexico.

And you are correct - I know nothing about welding or manufacturing. I was pretty much conceding that with my obviously ridiculous "welding glue" comment.

Everyone's panties are 99% bunched before they even open a thread here. It's no wonder this forum is just a big fighting pit.

It seems to be shoot first and ask questions later. And yes I can be guilty of it sometimes too.. But aside from that, I still believe there is a need for a general heads up and safety issues forum here.

[mtofell1]

Hannibal wrote:

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:

mtofell1 wrote:
Being a business owner I always wonder what happened leading up to this - did they catch some rogue employee purposely not welding something? Did they get a bad batch of welding "glue?" How did they first learn of the problem? Maybe a truck just fell apart as it rolled off the assembly line?

And the brand bashers really make me laugh - a disgruntled employee could pee in the milkshake machine at McDonalds just as easy as Burger King.

As an "employee" with 30 years in manufacturing I would think it was more likely management wanting to push more product out the door with less people and no PM work on their machines.

Those upper control arms a welded by a machine or robot not a person. Also where was the QC department? This should have be caught at the plant LONG before the parts ever got built onto any vehicles! All welded components MUST have at least one part per shift cut apart, sectioned and the welds examined. Either under a microscope or x-rayed.

All of our welds are checked each shift and it used to be that production was held up until the lab gave the OK to run. Now they drop off the parts and keep running, if a issue is found ALL parts are quarantined and a QC Engineer makes the determination as to if the parts can be reworked or scarped. At one time we had over 50 workers in the lab, now we have less then 20.

Sad that you feel this way about American workers. I do love this part, "Did they get a bad batch of welding "glue?"", obviously you know nothing about welding and or manufacturing. Maybe you should keep to been making "mike shakes and hamburgers" or whatever it is you do.

Don

Well said Don!

Wow guys... lighten up! Where was I bashing American workers? Everyone in this contentious forum is constantly barking about all the vehicles being made in Mexico.

And you are correct - I know nothing about welding or manufacturing. I was pretty much conceding that with my obviously ridiculous "welding glue" comment.

Everyone's panties are 99% bunched before they even open a thread here. It's no wonder this forum is just a big fighting pit.

[shepstone]

Thanks for the heads up, I don't own one but its good info. Is there a problem with Mexican welding and assembly ?

[Wes_Tausend]

...

Geeze wrote:
"The components were supplied by Multimatic Inmetmatic." All of the auto companies use outside vendors so this could happen to any of them.

Multimatic Inmetmatic:

Mexico. So much for USA workers. But they are American, as good as men and women anywhere, and it is still usually a management problem, as Don says. Somewhere is a worker that did not do his/her job, but it is primarily managements responsibility to catch it and know why... and then correct it.

It works like this:
Workers row the boat. They carry the whole load, do all the manual effort, all the sweating and suffer all the bleeding blisters and provide the first tears of all the whimpering that goes on and on. Management calls cadence and mans the tiller. The entire boat only runs at managements pace and everyone hopes they know where, and how direct they are steering and cries foul when they don't. Stockholders (boat owners) try to profit from their investment as much as they can, naively learn to always expect so, and whine when the market downturns. Consumers (cargo recipients) try to get the product as cheap as possible and wail when it cost too much.

Through all the hand-wringing, the pecking order at the trough goes:
1)management first
2)stockholders next
3)then consumers
4)and finally workers.

And during all this, everybody belongs to a union of some kind:
Workers organized into labor unions after business owners (stockholders) formed corporation unions. Management unites boards to support their good-ol'-boy networks and consumers unionize government committees... each trying to gain leverage over the other by banding together. Even the lawyers that run the show belong to a union that's call the state bar association.

It all apparently works. Gotta love capitalism. Except when it's run-away-capitalism by the dice shakers on Wall Street.
----------------------------------

I liked mtofell1's remark about, "Did they get a bad batch of welding 'glue?'". I thought it funny. With all the modern vehicle, boat and aircraft construction using new adhesives, I think it was spot-on humor.

Wes
...

[Hannibal]

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:

mtofell1 wrote:
Being a business owner I always wonder what happened leading up to this - did they catch some rogue employee purposely not welding something? Did they get a bad batch of welding "glue?" How did they first learn of the problem? Maybe a truck just fell apart as it rolled off the assembly line?

And the brand bashers really make me laugh - a disgruntled employee could pee in the milkshake machine at McDonalds just as easy as Burger King.

As an "employee" with 30 years in manufacturing I would think it was more likely management wanting to push more product out the door with less people and no PM work on their machines.

Those upper control arms a welded by a machine or robot not a person. Also where was the QC department? This should have be caught at the plant LONG before the parts ever got built onto any vehicles! All welded components MUST have at least one part per shift cut apart, sectioned and the welds examined. Either under a microscope or x-rayed.

All of our welds are checked each shift and it used to be that production was held up until the lab gave the OK to run. Now they drop off the parts and keep running, if a issue is found ALL parts are quarantined and a QC Engineer makes the determination as to if the parts can be reworked or scarped. At one time we had over 50 workers in the lab, now we have less then 20.

Sad that you feel this way about American workers. I do love this part, "Did they get a bad batch of welding "glue?"", obviously you know nothing about welding and or manufacturing. Maybe you should keep to been making "mike shakes and hamburgers" or whatever it is you do.

Don

Well said Don!

[Camper93]

fla-gypsy wrote:
Where are the fanboys?

Driving their trucks, still better than a Ford

[Geeze]

"The components were supplied by Multimatic Inmetmatic." All of the auto companies use outside vendors so this could happen to any of them.

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

mtofell1 wrote:
Being a business owner I always wonder what happened leading up to this - did they catch some rogue employee purposely not welding something? Did they get a bad batch of welding "glue?" How did they first learn of the problem? Maybe a truck just fell apart as it rolled off the assembly line?

And the brand bashers really make me laugh - a disgruntled employee could pee in the milkshake machine at McDonalds just as easy as Burger King.

As an "employee" with 30 years in manufacturing I would think it was more likely management wanting to push more product out the door with less people and no PM work on their machines.

Those upper control arms a welded by a machine or robot not a person. Also where was the QC department? This should have be caught at the plant LONG before the parts ever got built onto any vehicles! All welded components MUST have at least one part per shift cut apart, sectioned and the welds examined. Either under a microscope or x-rayed.

All of our welds are checked each shift and it used to be that production was held up until the lab gave the OK to run. Now they drop off the parts and keep running, if a issue is found ALL parts are quarantined and a QC Engineer makes the determination as to if the parts can be reworked or scarped. At one time we had over 50 workers in the lab, now we have less then 20.

Sad that you feel this way about American workers. I do love this part, "Did they get a bad batch of welding "glue?"", obviously you know nothing about welding and or manufacturing. Maybe you should keep to been making "mike shakes and hamburgers" or whatever it is you do.

Don