Helping a very new TC owner with a truck decision

[mgsulkis]

Hi There,

Brand new TC owner and first time owner of anything RV or travel rig related. Asking for your forgiveness early on anything silly questions I ask. Thought I'd try to get some expert advice on this forum.

I just purchased a 2005 Lance Lite 845 from a family here in Colorado. I now need to purchase a truck to put it on.

The 2005 Lance Lite 845 is listed at 2190lbs dry. I see plenty of people putting the 845 on 250/2500 trucks. However, when I do the basic math on the GVWR the total weight is coming very close to the max (ie - within 200lbs or so). (Typically 8500-10000lbs GVWR and anywhere from 6400-7500 curb weight of the truck)

Two questions:

1. Are folks adding additional leaf springs and/or airbags to their 250/2500's and just calling it a day? Seems like that's the case

2. As I look for a truck (I'm trying to narrow down between a short bed Dodge 2500 cummins, Ford f250 and chevy 2500) should I be taking the truck to a scale to get a true curb weight to make sure I don't screw up the max GVWR?

Thank you! I have a lot more questions - a true rookie here. But having fun learning something new. Cheers.

[mgsulkis]

I think I'm slowly figuring out what the real deal is in the truck camper world...there's really no consensus on whether being over GVWR is unacceptable or not.

From what I can tell the majority of TC owners are likely running over the max for their GVWR or rear axle capacity...which drives fine...but from a legal/liability standpoint means you're screwed if someone were to come after you.

Unfortunately, in my case - my wife (and some part of me as well) doesn't love the idea of being over the legal capacity, should anything happen.

Also unfortunate for me is that I have already purchased the 2200lb dry weight camper - and other than a dually 3500, which I really don't want, it seems like there's not a whole lot one can do to make it work (again, legally - not functionally).

A bit discouraging - but I guess we'll just have to figure out what our final decision is. Anyone need a 2005 Lance Lite 845, recently inspected? Ha.

I think I'm tired for tonight. Thanks again to everyone chiming in.

[JimK-NY]

If I lived in Colorado especially, I would only want a diesel. It is not the mileage but the longevity and power. Engine braking is another major factor. Even with mountain driving, I rarely touch my brakes. If you already have or plan to buy a 250/2500, you should be able to make it work. Supersprings and upgraded shocks will do a lot for little money. I did that until I replaced my truck. My 3500 is basically the same truck with a bit more stiffness in the rear springs. I have not needed Supersprings or upgraded shocks. I did add Timbrens to level the ride and to keep my headlights from blinding oncoming drivers.

[Matthew2]

I have read discussions about truck camper's and what is the correct vehicle to use for the over 25 years I have owned them.
Despite those that talk about adding items to make a truck able to handle additional weight, it comes down to a few simple facts. If you get in an accident and it is determined your truck was over the manufactures engineered weight, insurance companies can reduce or deny claims, Law enforcement factor's an over weight vehicle into an accident investigation, lawyers can enter over weight vehicles into evidence and no one wants to injury their family or someone else's family because of an over weight or unsafe vehicle. There are truck scales and inspection stations for commercial vehicles, all over the United States because it reduces the chance of an accident.Purchase a vehicle that can safely and legally carry or tow your camper within manufactures specifications.

[BFL13]

These weight debates are always the same. There are always guys who say never mind the GVWR etc etc. If you try to do it right, they say you RV like a girl! 🙂

Yes you will be close to the ratings with the camper and that truck. The Diesel and its heavier tranny ( over 700 lbs more) plus 4x 4 (350lbs more than 2x2) eat up GVWR that could be for the camper.

It does not matter where the extra weight is front or back as long as you are under the ratings. Note how the GVWR is less than the total ratings of the front and back.

Our 2003 Chev 2500HD gasser has GVWR 9200 and weighs around 6000 on the scales with the box empty. That gives us 3200 for a camper but the back tires can take 6084 so would be over a bit with that much camper.

If we had the Diesel version of the same exact truck, it would weigh more like 7000 with nothing in the box, leaving us 2200 for the camper.

Another thing with Chevs anyway, is they have a Cargo Weight Rating for what should be the weight limit in the box. That would be their camper weight idea too.

That is to allow something for passengers in the cab--150 lbs per seat, so ours is 700 lbs off the total. Our CWR is 2770 , add 700 and we should be able to carry 3470lbs. Truck mods come off that first--belly bars, heavier wheels and tires, running boards, anything. Minus the tail gate though--could be a wash there for mods.

It seems like they say you can swipe some of that 700 for the cab and use it in the box, even if that puts you over your CWR. It can also seem like you should not do that for balance or centre of gravity. You will not get a straight answer from GM--I tried. 😞 They just keep saying not to go over any of the ratings. (Bunch of girls! 🙂 )

The newer trucks are stronger, but also heavier to make them stronger so it is not all just extra GVWR you can use. So you have to go by their ratings but you still need to weigh it all on the scales to know what you are actually doing.

For your intended driving locations, you could get 4x4 with the gas truck and be close enough ? while not getting stuck somewhere.

[Geo_Boy]

Get a 350/3500 Ford or GM with a gasoline motor, the 6.2 and 6.0 with 6 speed transmissions are bulletproof work horses.

[Grit_dog]

Oh and don’t get a Ram 2500 for a TC. Seen you looking at the Ram 2500 payload chart. Remember coil springs = no bueno for TC.

[Grit_dog]

^Youre basically on track, but stuck on the payload thing. 3/4 ton/250/2500 class 2 model trucks have artificially low payload ratings. So that part, you’re not tracking on.
It’s confusing with all the people saying “you need a 1 ton”, but if you want actual verification, look at payload/gvws of new GM and Ford class 2 trucks. They’re offered with greater than 10klb gvws AND 10k gvw. But the truck is the same. This is not light duty vs heavy duty.
Also diesels with less payload rating is the same concept. Where Diesel engines load the front axle more, campers load the rear axle. Again, real world payload IN the truck bed is relatively unaffected by lighter or heavier engine.

That and I wouldn’t see a good case for helper springs and airbags. Pick one, not both.

It’s all good.

[mgsulkis]

Lots of things on my mind here, folks! Really appreciate all the detail. I'm in a bit of a spin cycle trying to figure this out.

Originally, based on the reading I was doing, I figured I wanted a 4x4 diesel. We live in Colorado and would like to be able to drive it in the snow.

I feel like I'm hearing that in order to carry a 2200lb dry weight camper (so basically a 3200lb full weight camper I need a truck with a Total hauling capacity of at least 3200lbs...which basically doesn't exist in the 250/2500 range.

The RAM charts(took a look at the 2014-2016s) show that a 6.4L V8 Hemi has a GVWR of 10,000 and weighs 6,389. That would leave me 3611 lbs for the trailer. So, I'm about 400lbs away from the max out of the vehicle. The same chart says the rear axle can handle 6000 (assuming the GAWR is what I think it is).

So...if I'm willing to lose gas mileage and move away from the diesel...do I have my math right that this option would work, albeit be pretty close to my max out?

I imagine the right move there is to see how it rides, then if it feels to heavy, etc - I make the inbvestment in additional leaf springs, sway bar (probably advisable anyways) and air bags.

Can someone gut check me?

[capacitor]

Now that is ugly! When I picked up the camper the dealership had it on a long bed to move it and I been laughing about that ever since.

[noteven]

Short bed or long bed the camper center of gravity will be the same in relation to the rear axle.

Bed length differences are between the axle and the back of cab. Length behind the axle is the same.

I use the gap for storage.

I hear the "looks police" don't like it which is of course why they can rig their own campers however they like.

[BFL13]

IMO get a gas instead of a Diesel and 2 x2 unless you really need 4x4 as this will save maybe 1,100 lbs or more of truck ( My numbers are out of date on that--confirm with newer trucks) weight that you can now use for more camper weight. OTOH the reasons given above for Diesel might apply to you. Depends.

What jacks are on that camper? If you got a dually truck, you need dually jack mountings if not there now.

Get a truck with a back seat not a regular cab. You need space to carry more stuff than the camper will hold.

Besides the weight on the back tires and all that to consider, if you overload the truck, it will be hard to stop and keep the speed down when going down steep hills. Not fun!

A mechanical inspection before buying is well worth it. Low miles does not mean it hasn't been worked hard. EG, watch out for shavings in the rear differential. You can get a "kit" for that, but it costs some. That's just one thing for the inspection to do for you.

If the truck already has a towing package, you get the 7-pin for the camper's lights. Maybe a transmission cooler too.

Compare the bed rail height with your camper box height--you might need some 2x 4s in the bed to sit the camper on and longer chains to the belly bars. (You have to get those put on the truck)

[capacitor]

I dad the same 845 on a GMC 2500HD gas and added the air bags. Worked fine for 6years, no problems. The 845 is for a shortbed truck and I don’t recall a 3500 in a shortbed.

[wintersun]

With the Chevy/GM/Ram trucks there is no difference between the 2500 and 3500 trucks other than the number of rear leaf springs in the pack and whether you can get DRW on the truck as DRW available only with the 3500 models. When I bought my 2011 Chvey Duramax diesel 2500 pickup it was so I could get the standard length bed of 6'6" and the double or extended cab. With the 3500 I would have had to go with either the regular cab or the crew cab. Be careful as when I bought my Chevy 2500HD pickup with its 2800 lb payload capacity it had a higher payload rating than any of the SRW 3500 pickups on the dealer's lot. With Ford they have had more differences between their F-250 and F-350 models and so safest to go with one of their F-350 trucks if you decide on Ford.

I added a double leaf set of SuperSprings for $445 and an hour of my time to increase the payload from 2800 to more than 4000 lbs and I replaced the factory tires rated at 3095 lbs with new Nitto tires rated at 3750 lbs load capacity and I replaced the factory shocks with the Rancho XL adjustable shocks.

I drove the truck with the fully loaded Lance 845 camper and a total payload of 3700 lbs with zero issues and no problems with sway or handling of the truck and camper. It is very important to realize that in a turn there will be more than 50% of the camper load on one wheel and so on one tire and one set of leaf springs. If the load cannot be adequately supported then there will be sway and the shocks will be far less effective.

Truck frames were made much stronger on the 2011 and later GM pickups and on the 2014 and later Ram trucks and on the 2016 and later Ford pickups (which were the ones most likely to have a frame fail with a camper load). At least with the AAM axles used on the GM/Chevy trucks their load rating is 11,000 lbs so the payload is largely determined by the weight the leaf springs and the tires can support.

I highly recommend the Torklift frame mounted tie-downs and their FastGun adjustble turnbuckles (proper tensioning is critical as too much tension will literally pull the sides of the camper apart.

There are people selling their trucks with their campers and you will save more than $3000 or more in the costs of mating a camper to the truck properly. With a new truck there will the cost of the hold downs and the new shocks and tires and new wiring harness and battery relay and 20 hours or more of shop labor. Unless the model and year are known to have reliabilty or safety problems, which is easy to research, there is little to be gained with a brand new pickup.

With a new pickup plan on selling the tires on Craigslist and buying higher load capacity tires (Nitto, BF Goodrich, Toyo) and on replacing the shocks with the Rancho adjustable, and be sure that the pickup does not have one of the plastic drop in bed liners as this will make it more difficult to keep the camper from sliding in the bed. I gained 1310 lbs of load capacity at the rear axle with the new tires.

I went with the diesel truck for its power and ability to quickly accelerate and safely merge with freeway traffic and to be able to safely pass double trailer rigs going up steep grades and having the use of the engine exhaust brake when going down steep hills. I also got 30% more miles per gallon which meant that the range with the trucks 36-gal fuel tank was 30% greater. One cannot legally nor do aftermarket fuel tank makers have them to replace the factory gas tank. The front profile of the Lance camper produced a great deal of wind drag which impacted fuel economy considerably with a reduction of more than 30% even without a head or cross wind.

[Lwiddis]

Air bags level the truck. They don’t increase payload. My 1500 is fine for a smaller TT. You need a one ton.

[Grit_dog]

Bottom line, it's not that daunting. It's just like hauling a pallet of bricks or cement in a truck, except you can live inside it!
Only difference is campers are more top heavy than most items. You'll feel it and adjust accordingly and after a couple hours of windshield time you'll just adapt and motor on.